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talking history | syllabi | students | teachers | puzzle | about us
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:02:03 -0500
Reply-To: gg74@umail.umd.edu
Sender: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
From: Gary Gerstle
Organization: University of Maryland
Subject: Wrap-up
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Thanks to Stephen Homick and April Schultz for their thoughtful
responses to the problems of teaching whiteness to white students, and
to Tracey Weis for alerting us to Millersville University's New Media
classroom program. And thanks to all the subscribers who participated
in our wide-ranging and stimulating discussions of the last month. I
enjoyed moderating this forum and have benefited a great deal from it.
And perhaps we'll find other forums to keep our conversations going.
Sincerely,
Gary Gerstle
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:26:37 -0700
Reply-To: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
Sender: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
From: "Arthur D. Jacobs"
Subject: Re: Wrap-up
Comments: To: gg74@umail.umd.edu
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Gary:
Thank you!
Art Jacobs
Gary Gerstle wrote:
> Thanks to Stephen Homick and April Schultz for their thoughtful
> responses to the problems of teaching whiteness to white students, and
> to Tracey Weis for alerting us to Millersville University's New Media
> classroom program. And thanks to all the subscribers who participated
> in our wide-ranging and stimulating discussions of the last month. I
> enjoyed moderating this forum and have benefited a great deal from it.
> And perhaps we'll find other forums to keep our conversations going.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Gary Gerstle
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 06:44:45 -0500
Reply-To: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
Sender: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
From: maria mazzenga
Subject: postnationalism?, postethnicity?
Hey, are the last comments sent to the list over the past fews days
reflections of a postnational perspective ("postnational" meaning that it
transcends national power rather than advocates power within the nationalist
framework) on immigration and ethnic history in the U.S.?
This seems to be what Gary Gerstle is proposing when he suggests giving the
inclusive stories of America (i.e., it is a place where stories of immigrant
success can be real) a place in the classroom next to those more coercive.
The classroom resistances to which April Schultz and Cindy Hahamovitch refer
seem to be about teacher-student power struggles. Students want to see the
myths of success in America, which, as Gary points out, are not completely
mythical, as all-encompassing and completely true. When teachers challenge
the myths students
often take offense. This makes sense, as many citizens are encouraged from
childhood by parents, politicians and even teachers themselves to place
great faith (and with all the emotions faith involves) in the nation's most
shining attributes. As far as immigration and race, it seems that the
resistance arises among the young people in April's and Cindy's classes
because these students do not see themselves as members of a race
(historical and socially constructed, of course). If students start to
understand their position in the nation in terms of racial status in a
gradual way, then maybe they wouldn't feel "accused," in the case of Cindy's
students in particular, of membership in a group that has in fact wielded
despotic power over non-whites throughout all of US history.
This seems like a postnational perspective because it assumes that all
individuals who consider themselves members of an "ethnic" or "racial" group
in the US have a power stake in their particular ideas about the nation.
Doesn't the nation get its power, for good and for evil, from those
individuals (like Ronald Reagan) and groups (like white Anglo-Protestants)
who manage to capture the public's imagination with their definition of it?
Once a person sees their own position as one of many, the power of the
nation as a homogeneously-populated, or as representative of a single view
of humanity, etc., seems to fall apart. This to my thinking is one reason
to hang on the main insight of whiteness studies, which is that there is
indeed a white race that has been privileged over all others in the US. (I
can't comment on the Forbath communication on whiteness, as it never made it
to my mailbox). To borrow Stephen Homick's phrasing, such studies reveal to
those who consider themselves without pigmentation as in fact in possession
of color. One reason "white" people get so angry when they are told their
whiteness has given them crucial social and economic advantages is because
they think they are colorless, and that colorlessness makes their view of
the world the right one.
Teaching from this perspective (one which acknowledges the nation's
blessings as well as its injustices) might (and I think Gary suggests this)
force teachers to relinquish power to their students in many ways. I find
this an interesting and ironic development because, as Benedict Anderson and
other historians of modern nations inform us, modern mass educational
systems arose to produce the leaders of their societies. So teachers have
comprised a crucial strata of political power in the very nations they
criticize as, in this case, racially inegalitarian. On the other hand, this
fact places teachers in a very advantageous position to destroy the
inequalities of the political entities that gave them power in the first
place.
Maria Mazzenga
mazzengakane@msn.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:35:10 -0500
Reply-To: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
Sender: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
From: farran
Subject: Re: comparing immigrant/ethnic groups
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi Jane-
Let me begin by wishing you the best of luck on your Ph.D. work. My son is
doing his work at Fordham, so I know how hard you must be working.
I probably can assist you to find some resources for immigration vis a vis Jew
ish women as I am involved in studying Jewish genealogy. You might want to look
at the following sites which will link you to other places:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ and
http://www.jewishmemorial.com/links/jewish_links.htm
I wonder if it would be possible for you to do a little bit of research for me
at NYU which is probably related to your studies. About 10 years ago someone
mentioned that a friend of his had worked on the topic of (something like) the
artisans/Jews of the Champagne region of France during the Middle Ages - or
around the 1600's for his doctorate at NYU. Sorry to be so vague, but that's
about all the information I know. If you can find out if such a paper is on
file, or even how I could go about finding out this information, I would be
very grateful.
Thank you and good l uck. Let me know if the sites helped you.
Elaine Farran
Sheepshead Bay HS
Jane H. Rothstein wrote:
> To start out, thank you to the American Social History Project for
> sponsoring this forum and to Gary Gerstle for moderating it.
>
> By way of introduction, I am a PhD candidate from New York University in
> American Jewish history and the history of women and gender. My research
> focuses on Eastern European Jewish immigrants and their children from the
> turn of the century through the 1940s. I am not teaching right now, but am
> formulating courses on both American Jewish history and on US
> immigration/ethnic history.
>
> For those of you who have taught courses on one immigrant/ethnic group in
> the US, how have you approached:
> 1) comparison among groups, and
> 2) relations between groups, both on a formal, communal level and on more
> individual bases?
>
> For those of you teaching survey courses on immigration/ethnic history, how
> have you approached these questions? In what ways are these approaches
> similar and in what ways different?
>
> thanks,
>
> Jane
>
> Jane Rothstein,
> Ph.D. Candidate
> Department of History and
> Skirball Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
> New York University
> jr231@is5.nyu.edu
> jane_rothstein@mindspring.com
>
> "Racing between mysticism and revolution..."
> -- Phil Ochs
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:44:07 -0500
Reply-To: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
Sender: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
From: "Jane H. Rothstein"
Subject: Re: comparing immigrant/ethnic groups
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Dear Elaine-
Thanks for the website info. All NYU PhD dissertations (well, maybe those
from the last 25-30 years) are catalogued in Bobcat, NYU's online library
catalog. Their web interface, which is very user friendly, can be found at
http://www.bobcat.nyu.edu
Probably the best thing would be to do a keyword search.
best of luck,
Jane
Jane Rothstein,
Ph.D. Candidate
Department of History and
Skirball Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
New York University
jr231@is5.nyu.edu
jane_rothstein@mindspring.com
"Racing between mysticism and revolution..."
-- Phil Ochs
----------
>From: farran
>To: IMMIGRATIONFORUM@ASHP.LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: comparing immigrant/ethnic groups
>Date: Mon, Dec 6, 1999, 6:35 PM
>
>Hi Jane-
>Let me begin by wishing you the best of luck on your Ph.D. work. My son is
>doing his work at Fordham, so I know how hard you must be working.
>I probably can assist you to find some resources for immigration vis a vis Jew
>ish women as I am involved in studying Jewish genealogy. You might want to look
>at the following sites which will link you to other places:
>http://www.jewishgen.org/ and
>http://www.jewishmemorial.com/links/jewish_links.htm
>
>I wonder if it would be possible for you to do a little bit of research for me
>at NYU which is probably related to your studies. About 10 years ago someone
>mentioned that a friend of his had worked on the topic of (something like) the
>artisans/Jews of the Champagne region of France during the Middle Ages - or
>around the 1600's for his doctorate at NYU. Sorry to be so vague, but that's
>about all the information I know. If you can find out if such a paper is on
>file, or even how I could go about finding out this information, I would be
>very grateful.
>
>Thank you and good l uck. Let me know if the sites helped you.
>Elaine Farran
>Sheepshead Bay HS
>
>Jane H. Rothstein wrote:
>
>> To start out, thank you to the American Social History Project for
>> sponsoring this forum and to Gary Gerstle for moderating it.
>>
>> By way of introduction, I am a PhD candidate from New York University in
>> American Jewish history and the history of women and gender. My research
>> focuses on Eastern European Jewish immigrants and their children from the
>> turn of the century through the 1940s. I am not teaching right now, but am
>> formulating courses on both American Jewish history and on US
>> immigration/ethnic history.
>>
>> For those of you who have taught courses on one immigrant/ethnic group in
>> the US, how have you approached:
>> 1) comparison among groups, and
>> 2) relations between groups, both on a formal, communal level and on more
>> individual bases?
>>
>> For those of you teaching survey courses on immigration/ethnic history, how
>> have you approached these questions? In what ways are these approaches
>> similar and in what ways different?
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Jane
>>
>> Jane Rothstein,
>> Ph.D. Candidate
>> Department of History and
>> Skirball Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
>> New York University
>> jr231@is5.nyu.edu
>> jane_rothstein@mindspring.com
>>
>> "Racing between mysticism and revolution..."
>> -- Phil Ochs
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:21:07 -0500
Reply-To: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
Sender: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
From: "Jane H. Rothstein"
Subject: Re: comparing immigrant/ethnic groups
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
My apologies for sending that message out to the whole list.
Jane
Jane Rothstein,
Ph.D. Candidate
Department of History and
Skirball Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
New York University
jr231@is5.nyu.edu
jane_rothstein@mindspring.com
"Racing between mysticism and revolution..."
-- Phil Ochs
----------
>From: "Jane H. Rothstein"
>To: IMMIGRATIONFORUM@ASHP.LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: comparing immigrant/ethnic groups
>Date: Mon, Dec 6, 1999, 7:44 PM
>
>Dear Elaine-
>Thanks for the website info. All NYU PhD dissertations (well, maybe those
>from the last 25-30 years) are catalogued in Bobcat, NYU's online library
>catalog. Their web interface, which is very user friendly, can be found at
>http://www.bobcat.nyu.edu
>Probably the best thing would be to do a keyword search.
>
>best of luck,
>
>Jane
>
>Jane Rothstein,
>Ph.D. Candidate
>Department of History and
>Skirball Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
>New York University
>jr231@is5.nyu.edu
>jane_rothstein@mindspring.com
>
>"Racing between mysticism and revolution..."
> -- Phil Ochs
>
>----------
>>From: farran
>>To: IMMIGRATIONFORUM@ASHP.LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
>>Subject: Re: comparing immigrant/ethnic groups
>>Date: Mon, Dec 6, 1999, 6:35 PM
>>
>
>>Hi Jane-
>>Let me begin by wishing you the best of luck on your Ph.D. work. My son is
>>doing his work at Fordham, so I know how hard you must be working.
>>I probably can assist you to find some resources for immigration vis a vis Jew
>>ish women as I am involved in studying Jewish genealogy. You might want to look
>>at the following sites which will link you to other places:
>>http://www.jewishgen.org/ and
>>http://www.jewishmemorial.com/links/jewish_links.htm
>>
>>I wonder if it would be possible for you to do a little bit of research for me
>>at NYU which is probably related to your studies. About 10 years ago someone
>>mentioned that a friend of his had worked on the topic of (something like) the
>>artisans/Jews of the Champagne region of France during the Middle Ages - or
>>around the 1600's for his doctorate at NYU. Sorry to be so vague, but that's
>>about all the information I know. If you can find out if such a paper is on
>>file, or even how I could go about finding out this information, I would be
>>very grateful.
>>
>>Thank you and good l uck. Let me know if the sites helped you.
>>Elaine Farran
>>Sheepshead Bay HS
>>
>>Jane H. Rothstein wrote:
>>
>>> To start out, thank you to the American Social History Project for
>>> sponsoring this forum and to Gary Gerstle for moderating it.
>>>
>>> By way of introduction, I am a PhD candidate from New York University in
>>> American Jewish history and the history of women and gender. My research
>>> focuses on Eastern European Jewish immigrants and their children from the
>>> turn of the century through the 1940s. I am not teaching right now, but am
>>> formulating courses on both American Jewish history and on US
>>> immigration/ethnic history.
>>>
>>> For those of you who have taught courses on one immigrant/ethnic group in
>>> the US, how have you approached:
>>> 1) comparison among groups, and
>>> 2) relations between groups, both on a formal, communal level and on more
>>> individual bases?
>>>
>>> For those of you teaching survey courses on immigration/ethnic history, how
>>> have you approached these questions? In what ways are these approaches
>>> similar and in what ways different?
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> Jane
>>>
>>> Jane Rothstein,
>>> Ph.D. Candidate
>>> Department of History and
>>> Skirball Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
>>> New York University
>>> jr231@is5.nyu.edu
>>> jane_rothstein@mindspring.com
>>>
>>> "Racing between mysticism and revolution..."
>>> -- Phil Ochs
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:51:16 -0500
Reply-To: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
Sender: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
From: farran
Subject: Re: comparing immigrant/ethnic groups
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dear Jane - Thank YOU! That was such a fast reply. If I can help in anyway with the
genealogy piece, keep me on your address list. I'll be glad to do so.
Good luck-
Elaine Farran
Jane H. Rothstein wrote:
> Dear Elaine-
> Thanks for the website info. All NYU PhD dissertations (well, maybe those
> from the last 25-30 years) are catalogued in Bobcat, NYU's online library
> catalog. Their web interface, which is very user friendly, can be found at
> http://www.bobcat.nyu.edu
> Probably the best thing would be to do a keyword search.
>
> best of luck,
>
> Jane
>
> Jane Rothstein,
> Ph.D. Candidate
> Department of History and
> Skirball Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
> New York University
> jr231@is5.nyu.edu
> jane_rothstein@mindspring.com
>
> "Racing between mysticism and revolution..."
> -- Phil Ochs
>
> ----------
> >From: farran
> >To: IMMIGRATIONFORUM@ASHP.LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
> >Subject: Re: comparing immigrant/ethnic groups
> >Date: Mon, Dec 6, 1999, 6:35 PM
> >
>
> >Hi Jane-
> >Let me begin by wishing you the best of luck on your Ph.D. work. My son is
> >doing his work at Fordham, so I know how hard you must be working.
> >I probably can assist you to find some resources for immigration vis a vis Jew
> >ish women as I am involved in studying Jewish genealogy. You might want to look
> >at the following sites which will link you to other places:
> >http://www.jewishgen.org/ and
> >http://www.jewishmemorial.com/links/jewish_links.htm
> >
> >I wonder if it would be possible for you to do a little bit of research for me
> >at NYU which is probably related to your studies. About 10 years ago someone
> >mentioned that a friend of his had worked on the topic of (something like) the
> >artisans/Jews of the Champagne region of France during the Middle Ages - or
> >around the 1600's for his doctorate at NYU. Sorry to be so vague, but that's
> >about all the information I know. If you can find out if such a paper is on
> >file, or even how I could go about finding out this information, I would be
> >very grateful.
> >
> >Thank you and good l uck. Let me know if the sites helped you.
> >Elaine Farran
> >Sheepshead Bay HS
> >
> >Jane H. Rothstein wrote:
> >
> >> To start out, thank you to the American Social History Project for
> >> sponsoring this forum and to Gary Gerstle for moderating it.
> >>
> >> By way of introduction, I am a PhD candidate from New York University in
> >> American Jewish history and the history of women and gender. My research
> >> focuses on Eastern European Jewish immigrants and their children from the
> >> turn of the century through the 1940s. I am not teaching right now, but am
> >> formulating courses on both American Jewish history and on US
> >> immigration/ethnic history.
> >>
> >> For those of you who have taught courses on one immigrant/ethnic group in
> >> the US, how have you approached:
> >> 1) comparison among groups, and
> >> 2) relations between groups, both on a formal, communal level and on more
> >> individual bases?
> >>
> >> For those of you teaching survey courses on immigration/ethnic history, how
> >> have you approached these questions? In what ways are these approaches
> >> similar and in what ways different?
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >>
> >> Jane
> >>
> >> Jane Rothstein,
> >> Ph.D. Candidate
> >> Department of History and
> >> Skirball Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
> >> New York University
> >> jr231@is5.nyu.edu
> >> jane_rothstein@mindspring.com
> >>
> >> "Racing between mysticism and revolution..."
> >> -- Phil Ochs
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:24:47 -0400
Reply-To: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
Sender: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
From: Lynda Durfee
Subject: Ellis Island
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Today's Wall Street Journal has an interesting article on the hospital at Ellis
Island. Unlike the Immigration Hall, the contagious-disease hospital has not
been stablized or restored.
WSJ, Thursday, Dec., 9, p. A24.
Lynda Durfee
durfee_lynda@tmac.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:41:57 +0000
Reply-To: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
Sender: Forum on Immigration & Ethnicity
From: Andrea Ades Vasquez
Subject: Re: comparing immigrant/ethnic groups
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Seems to be a misdirected message.
----------
>From: "Jane H. Rothstein"
>To: IMMIGRATIONFORUM@ASHP.LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: comparing immigrant/ethnic groups
>Date: Tue, Dec 7, 1999, 12:44 AM
>
> Dear Elaine-
> Thanks for the website info. All NYU PhD dissertations (well, maybe those
> from the last 25-30 years) are catalogued in Bobcat, NYU's online library
> catalog. Their web interface, which is very user friendly, can be found at
> http://www.bobcat.nyu.edu
> Probably the best thing would be to do a keyword search.
>
> best of luck,
>
> Jane
>
> Jane Rothstein,
> Ph.D. Candidate
> Department of History and
> Skirball Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
> New York University
> jr231@is5.nyu.edu
> jane_rothstein@mindspring.com
>
> "Racing between mysticism and revolution..."
> -- Phil Ochs
>
> ----------
>>From: farran
>>To: IMMIGRATIONFORUM@ASHP.LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
>>Subject: Re: comparing immigrant/ethnic groups
>>Date: Mon, Dec 6, 1999, 6:35 PM
>>
>
>>Hi Jane-
>>Let me begin by wishing you the best of luck on your Ph.D. work. My son is
>>doing his work at Fordham, so I know how hard you must be working.
>>I probably can assist you to find some resources for immigration vis a vis Jew
>>ish women as I am involved in studying Jewish genealogy. You might want to
look
>>at the following sites which will link you to other places:
>>http://www.jewishgen.org/ and
>>http://www.jewishmemorial.com/links/jewish_links.htm
>>
>>I wonder if it would be possible for you to do a little bit of research for me
>>at NYU which is probably related to your studies. About 10 years ago someone
>>mentioned that a friend of his had worked on the topic of (something like) the
>>artisans/Jews of the Champagne region of France during the Middle Ages - or
>>around the 1600's for his doctorate at NYU. Sorry to be so vague, but that's
>>about all the information I know. If you can find out if such a paper is on
>>file, or even how I could go about finding out this information, I would be
>>very grateful.
>>
>>Thank you and good l uck. Let me know if the sites helped you.
>>Elaine Farran
>>Sheepshead Bay HS
>>
>>Jane H. Rothstein wrote:
>>
>>> To start out, thank you to the American Social History Project for
>>> sponsoring this forum and to Gary Gerstle for moderating it.
>>>
>>> By way of introduction, I am a PhD candidate from New York University in
>>> American Jewish history and the history of women and gender. My research
>>> focuses on Eastern European Jewish immigrants and their children from the
>>> turn of the century through the 1940s. I am not teaching right now, but am
>>> formulating courses on both American Jewish history and on US
>>> immigration/ethnic history.
>>>
>>> For those of you who have taught courses on one immigrant/ethnic group in
>>> the US, how have you approached:
>>> 1) comparison among groups, and
>>> 2) relations between groups, both on a formal, communal level and on more
>>> individual bases?
>>>
>>> For those of you teaching survey courses on immigration/ethnic history, how
>>> have you approached these questions? In what ways are these approaches
>>> similar and in what ways different?
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> Jane
>>>
>>> Jane Rothstein,
>>> Ph.D. Candidate
>>> Department of History and
>>> Skirball Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
>>> New York University
>>> jr231@is5.nyu.edu
>>> jane_rothstein@mindspring.com
>>>
>>> "Racing between mysticism and revolution..."
>>> -- Phil Ochs