=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:34:32 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Ira Berlin 
Subject:      Opening Statement
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Dear Colleagues,

No aspect of the American past has undergone as full a revision in the last
twenty years as the study of slavery.  The pace has been extraordinary.  As
scholars scurry to keep up with a field that produced some sixty odd new
books and many more articles this year alone, slavery has come to frequent
the popular press and other public forums from big-buck movies on the big
screen, PBS series on the small screen, countless museum exhibits, numerous
monuments to reenactments of all sorts.  Slavery has been on the cover of
TIME and Newsweek, as well as "above the fold" in the NEW YORK TIMES and the=

Washington Post.  It has entered politics most recently with the President's=

special commission headed by John Hope Franklin as well as an earlier
abortive debate over the "The Apology" and the persistent calls for
reparations.

But the new scholarship has not always informed either public interest or
pedagogical concerns.

Let me suggest the directions in which the scholarship of slavery has moved
and some of its implications for the classroom.

Some of the revisions are basic ones of space and time, geography and
chronology.  The study of US slavery is no longer simply located in the Nort=
h
American past, connected to the American Civil War, and preoccupied with
matters of domination and exploitation, be they physical or cultural. As a
result...

1. Slavery is now viewed in worldwide perspective, and slavery in the United=

States is seen as a small part of a global system that was itself the pivot
of the remaking of the modern world.  In short, to study slavery is to learn=

something about early modern Europe, Africa, and the Americas.  The Atlantic=

between the sixteenth and the nineteenth centuries is seen as one piece and
the migrations--studied in demographic, sociological, and cultural terms--ar=
e
the heart of slavery=92s history.  From a pedagogical point of view, studyin=
g
slavery has the advantage of forcing students to think globally, and
reminding them that what is often claimed to be new about their world is
really not so new.

2.  Slavery in the United States is no longer seen through the lens of the
American Civil War, the short period between 1830 and 1865 when the section
struggle boiled over into Civil War and eventuated in emancipation.  Instead=

US slavery is understood in the longue duree--as an experience which lasted
over 300 years- which is most of the history of European and African
settlement of mainland North America.  For most of that period, the
characteristics of slavery=92s last years-- cotton cultivation, blackbelt
residence, and Afro-Christian belief--were not part of the experience of mos=
t
American slaves.  Studying slavery thus awakens most students to the fact
that things are not what they have been taught.

3. Slavery is no longer viewed as an institution attached to the North-
American South.  For most of its history in mainland North American, slavery=

was as much Northern as Southern.  Slavery in the North was a wide-spread,
deeply rooted institution, which in some critical ways was as essential to
the Northern economy as it was to the Southern.  Incorporating the North int=
o
the study of slavery opens up new possibilities for understanding the
evolution of American race relations.

4.  Slavery is no longer seen as simply a system of domination, where the
masters=92 ruled through a monopoly of force or application of paternalist
ideology.  Instead, slavery is seen as an uneven contest, in which the slave=
s
employed their knowledge and guile to shape their own lives and even the
lives of their owners.  Rather than dictate, slaveholders were forced to
negotiate, and in those negotiations slave society was formed.  Students thu=
s
derive critical lessons about the agency and the power of subordinate people=
s
and classes from the study of slavery.

5.  Finally, the new understanding of slavery has put great emphasis on
cultural exchange and the ways in which the culture of the slave, the cultur=
e
of Africa, not only shaped African-American life in the New World, but also
European-American and Native American life.  The lessons here are manifold,
disposing of older ideas of cultural genocide (the destruction or erasure of=

a culture)--or assimilation (the making of one culture into another.)
Instead, the emphasis has been on creolization or hybridization, the
continued creation of something new.  An appreciation that no culture has
"integrity" and all are constantly made and remade is critical in a world
suffuse with essentialist nationalism.

All of this "new" history has to be presented to a public that has not fully=

absorbed the lessons of slavery=92s "old" historiography.  Those old lessons=
--
which labored to banish notions of African backwardness, "Negro" inferiority=

and passivity, and slaveholder beneficence--are still worthy ones, as these
stereotypes are still alive in some quarters.  Indeed, they have shown
remarkable resilience in recent years.  Thus presenting the new knowledge of=

slavery is only half of the job, for slavery raises fundamental and
inescapable moral and political questions.  These not only speak to ongoing
conflicts within the US (and elsewhere) but also to the relationship between=

past injustices and the present.  The discomfort these matters create
manifest themselves in a variety of ways from anger to embarrassment, from
denial to disengagement in a manner that rarely touch other questions in
American history.  Whatever weight Americans give to the American Revolution=
,
the Jackson transformation, or the New Deal, their discussions rarely evoke
the passion that often accompanies the question of slavery.  Yet, problems
that accompany such passions also provide opportunities for engagement.

Doubtless everyone who had taught slavery has seen--perhaps up close and
personal--those passions set loose in the classroom.  We might begin our
electronic discussion by eliciting successful strategies for defusing the ol=
d
myths, introducing the slavery=92s new history, and encouraging classroom
engagement.

Sincerely, Ira Berlin
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:57:46 +0000
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         don@ACSC.MEC.CUNY.EDU
Subject:      Re: Opening Statement

Dear Colleagues,
Some of what is "new" is only "new" from perspectives that have in the past
excluded
African American views on slavery.  For instance, the popular reggae song "400
Years"
makes clear that slavery has never been viewed primarily with an emphasis on the
30 years before the Civil War by African peoples in the Western hemisphere.
Inclusive
in the 30 year perspective is that the ensuing struggle between Southern and
Northern
Whites was the defining moment in the history of African slavery in the United
States.
Be that as it is, the points raised in the "Opening Statement" do tell us the
impact of
African American struggle and "Black" Studies on contemporary scholarship.  What
is
absent in the statement is any direct reference to African world views,
including those
of African American and African Caribbean peoples:  as in much post modern
thought,
old paradigms of authority are resurrected silently while "truths" first voiced
by oppressed
peoples and classes are affirmed.  What must be included in any contemporary
discussion
of slavery is the Afrocentric worldview, that is, defining African slavery in
the Americas from
the viewpoint of Africa, enslaved Africans, their ancestors and their
descendants.

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> No aspect of the American past has undergone as full a revision in the last
> twenty years as the study of slavery.  The pace has been extraordinary.  As
> scholars scurry to keep up with a field that produced some sixty odd new
> books and many more articles this year alone, slavery has come to frequent
> the popular press and other public forums from big-buck movies on the big
> screen, PBS series on the small screen, countless museum exhibits, numerous
> monuments to reenactments of all sorts.  Slavery has been on the cover of
> TIME and Newsweek, as well as "above the fold" in the NEW YORK TIMES and the=
>
> Washington Post.  It has entered politics most recently with the President's=
>
> special commission headed by John Hope Franklin as well as an earlier
> abortive debate over the "The Apology" and the persistent calls for
> reparations.
>
> But the new scholarship has not always informed either public interest or
> pedagogical concerns.
>
> Let me suggest the directions in which the scholarship of slavery has moved
> and some of its implications for the classroom.
>
> Some of the revisions are basic ones of space and time, geography and
> chronology.  The study of US slavery is no longer simply located in the Nort=
> h
> American past, connected to the American Civil War, and preoccupied with
> matters of domination and exploitation, be they physical or cultural. As a
> result...
>
> 1. Slavery is now viewed in worldwide perspective, and slavery in the United=
>
> States is seen as a small part of a global system that was itself the pivot
> of the remaking of the modern world.  In short, to study slavery is to learn=
>
> something about early modern Europe, Africa, and the Americas.  The Atlantic=
>
> between the sixteenth and the nineteenth centuries is seen as one piece and
> the migrations--studied in demographic, sociological, and cultural terms--ar=
> e
> the heart of slavery=92s history.  From a pedagogical point of view, studyin=
> g
> slavery has the advantage of forcing students to think globally, and
> reminding them that what is often claimed to be new about their world is
> really not so new.
>
> 2.  Slavery in the United States is no longer seen through the lens of the
> American Civil War, the short period between 1830 and 1865 when the section
> struggle boiled over into Civil War and eventuated in emancipation.  Instead=
>
> US slavery is understood in the longue duree--as an experience which lasted
> over 300 years- which is most of the history of European and African
> settlement of mainland North America.  For most of that period, the
> characteristics of slavery=92s last years-- cotton cultivation, blackbelt
> residence, and Afro-Christian belief--were not part of the experience of mos=
> t
> American slaves.  Studying slavery thus awakens most students to the fact
> that things are not what they have been taught.
>
> 3. Slavery is no longer viewed as an institution attached to the North-
> American South.  For most of its history in mainland North American, slavery=
>
> was as much Northern as Southern.  Slavery in the North was a wide-spread,
> deeply rooted institution, which in some critical ways was as essential to
> the Northern economy as it was to the Southern.  Incorporating the North int=
> o
> the study of slavery opens up new possibilities for understanding the
> evolution of American race relations.
>
> 4.  Slavery is no longer seen as simply a system of domination, where the
> masters=92 ruled through a monopoly of force or application of paternalist
> ideology.  Instead, slavery is seen as an uneven contest, in which the slave=
> s
> employed their knowledge and guile to shape their own lives and even the
> lives of their owners.  Rather than dictate, slaveholders were forced to
> negotiate, and in those negotiations slave society was formed.  Students thu=
> s
> derive critical lessons about the agency and the power of subordinate people=
> s
> and classes from the study of slavery.
>
> 5.  Finally, the new understanding of slavery has put great emphasis on
> cultural exchange and the ways in which the culture of the slave, the cultur=
> e
> of Africa, not only shaped African-American life in the New World, but also
> European-American and Native American life.  The lessons here are manifold,
> disposing of older ideas of cultural genocide (the destruction or erasure of=
>
> a culture)--or assimilation (the making of one culture into another.)
> Instead, the emphasis has been on creolization or hybridization, the
> continued creation of something new.  An appreciation that no culture has
> "integrity" and all are constantly made and remade is critical in a world
> suffuse with essentialist nationalism.
>
> All of this "new" history has to be presented to a public that has not fully=
>
> absorbed the lessons of slavery=92s "old" historiography.  Those old lessons=
> --
> which labored to banish notions of African backwardness, "Negro" inferiority=
>
> and passivity, and slaveholder beneficence--are still worthy ones, as these
> stereotypes are still alive in some quarters.  Indeed, they have shown
> remarkable resilience in recent years.  Thus presenting the new knowledge of=
>
> slavery is only half of the job, for slavery raises fundamental and
> inescapable moral and political questions.  These not only speak to ongoing
> conflicts within the US (and elsewhere) but also to the relationship between=
>
> past injustices and the present.  The discomfort these matters create
> manifest themselves in a variety of ways from anger to embarrassment, from
> denial to disengagement in a manner that rarely touch other questions in
> American history.  Whatever weight Americans give to the American Revolution=
> ,
> the Jackson transformation, or the New Deal, their discussions rarely evoke
> the passion that often accompanies the question of slavery.  Yet, problems
> that accompany such passions also provide opportunities for engagement.
>
> Doubtless everyone who had taught slavery has seen--perhaps up close and
> personal--those passions set loose in the classroom.  We might begin our
> electronic discussion by eliciting successful strategies for defusing the ol=
> d
> myths, introducing the slavery=92s new history, and encouraging classroom
> engagement.
>
> Sincerely, Ira Berlin
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:11:10 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Paddy Swiney 
Subject:      response to opening statement/response
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I think Don's point is well-taken, and I would suggest that the evoked
passion that Professor Berlin referred to might originate in the unspoken
assumption that blame should be laid somewhere.  If we are to look at
African slavery from an African point of view, then we need to understand
that slavery was an African as well as European institution.  This is
always touchy.  How can we study slavery without playing the blame game?
It obscures the point, which is to recognize slavery is still with us, in
multiple senses, and to set about eradicating it.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:19:30 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Rick Halpern 
Subject:      Re: query before we start on 1 October
Comments: To: Tracey Weis 

I think the idea of vetting student contributions to the discussion is a
very good one.  A further idea, which I most likely will implement, is to
have the students work in small groups to formulate queries and comments.
They can bounce their ideas off of one another and refine/sharpen them
before they appear in the forum.

BTW, several of you have emailed me pointing out that my slavery site on AOL
is down.  It's a problem with AOL -- they hope to have it sorted by the end
of the day today (Friday 1 Oct).  Sorry.  There are reasons havingto do with
both control/copyright as well as interactivity why the site resides on AOL
and not on my institution's server.  I'd be glad to correspond with anyone
interested in the details.

Rick Halpern
University College London
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 Oct 1999 21:32:17 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Richard Joyce 
Subject:      Slave Work

Although I am but a high school teacher who has not done primary research on slavery but has read many of the top books on the topic, please allow me to share what I teach my students about the work of slaves.  I realize this outline is brief, but I feel it does provide them with a good basic understanding of something that was central to slave life.  This concept of slave work comes mostly from a bookdealing with American workers  by  Jacqueline Jones.

                               SLAVES WORKED:
I.  For their owners
    A.  Gang system
    B.  Task system
II. For themselves
    A.  Cooking, washing, fishing, trapping
    B.  Gardens, plots & livestock (slaves' "internal or domestic economy"
    C.  "Overwork" for pay from master --above & beyond normal workweek
III. For others
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 Oct 1999 21:41:27 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Richard Joyce 
Subject:      Slave Work

Although I am a high school teacher who has not done primary research on slavery but has read many of the top books on the topic, please allow me to share what I teach my students about the work of slaves.  I realize this outline is brief, but I feel that, when explained in detail, it does provide them with a good basic understanding of something that was central to slave life.  This concept of slave work comes mostly from a book dealing with American workers  by  Jacqueline Jones.

                               SLAVES WORKED:
I.  For their owners
    A.  Gang system--discuss role of overseer, driver
    B.  Task system
II. For themselves
    A.  Cooking, washing, raising children,  fishing, trapping
    B.  Gardens, plots & livestock (slaves' "internal or domestic economy")
    C.  "Overwork" for pay from master --above & beyond normal workweek
III. For others
    A. Slave hiring
    B. "Self-hire"
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 Oct 1999 12:41:34 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Beatrice Fabbri 
Subject:      french colonies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

How american intellectuals interpretate the attitude of french slavery
insurrections (during the french revolution, notably in 1791)and how faced
the attitude of french establishment that was against total liberation of
slaves ?

My subject of analysis is Olympe de Gouges works, I'm writing a thesis on
her, and I'm now analysing her playwright's production,she wrote an
interesting pi=E8ce entitled : L'Esclavage des Noirs (last edition 1792, the=

first title was Zamore et Mirza ou l'heurex naufrage and was less
politically involved the latest version of 1792 faced clearly Amis des
Noirs'advices)
I'd like to know your opinion on the first two questions.

Best
Beatrice Fabbri
(Florence-Italy)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:03:32 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Donna Stokes-Lucas 
Subject:      Re: Slave Work
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

One other area in relationship with Slave Work that maybe was included in
J.Jones
but not mention in your outline is Artisans. These enslaved Africans came
here with many
skills and crafts, that would net the slave owner extra bucks by hiring
out(as mention)  Also allowing the slave to earn money in many cases to
purchase his
or her freedom as well as their family members.
Some of these occupations would include
Blacksmiths
Pottery makers
Seamstress
Weavers
Carvers
Furniture Makers
Carpentry
With vast skill in designing some of the most beautiful homes
Landscaping
often times slaves are represented as just laborers, cooks, nannies,field
hands
etc. With no regard that they came to America with vast skills that were
exploded. Paul Cuffie was a major Ship Builder in the 1700's.
Some  of the many household items that we use today came out of slavery
but the credit in the development went to the master.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 Oct 1999 21:43:10 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         "Donald R. Shaffer" 
Subject:      Re: Opening Statement

Dear Colleagues,

Don's (in New York) point is well taken, but which African point-of-view
would he suggest we view slavery from?  Don mentions "African peoples" but
the rest of his message implies on monolithic African point-of-view.  How
can we talk about an Afro-centric viewpoint when there was a bewildering
variety of African languages, societies, and cultures in West Africa
alone?  It seems to be me that any discussion of an African point-of-view
would be interesting, but posssibly meaninglessly reductionist.  After all,
wasn't the Alantic slave trade sustained by a supply of "Africans" made
possible by the fact Africans did not identify themselves as Africans, but
as members of more more specific socio-cultural groups?

Respectfully submitted,
                          Don (in Wyoming)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:56:41 +0000
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         don@ACSC.MEC.CUNY.EDU
Subject:      Re: Opening Statement

Deasr Colleagues,

Don (in Wyoming) asks "How can we talk about an Afro-centric viewpoint when
there was a bewildering variety of African languages, societies, and cultures in

West Africa alone?"  Would that not also apply to a discussion of the
Renaissance
or fascism or Marxism or Post Modernism?  The African slave trade, from an
African perspective, included nations, engendered identities, linguistic
families,
religious diffferences, ethnic antagonisms, ruling elites, class warfare, and
class privilege.
All to be included in the discussion.  How else do we make sense out of modern
Africa
or African slavery as a global phenomenon?  From what other perspective can we
understand contemporary African American and African Caribbean American peoples
and their ancestors?

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> Don's (in New York) point is well taken, but which African point-of-view
> would he suggest we view slavery from?  Don mentions "African peoples" but
> the rest of his message implies on monolithic African point-of-view.  How
> can we talk about an Afro-centric viewpoint when there was a bewildering
> variety of African languages, societies, and cultures in West Africa
> alone?  It seems to be me that any discussion of an African point-of-view
> would be interesting, but posssibly meaninglessly reductionist.  After all,
> wasn't the Alantic slave trade sustained by a supply of "Africans" made
> possible by the fact Africans did not identify themselves as Africans, but
> as members of more more specific socio-cultural groups?
>
> Respectfully submitted,
>                           Don (in Wyoming)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:00:24 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Dennis Lawrence 
Subject:      Re: Opening Statement
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Greetings,

     Dr. Berlin suggests we begin by "eliciting successful strategies for
defusing the old myths, introducing the slavery=92s new history, and
encouraging classroom engagement."

     As a high school teacher in Kansas City,Kansas, I have found that it is=

sometimes productive to work "backward" from our community to slavery to put=

it in a context that invites students to engage in new research.

   As an example, we are engaged in an immigration study of how the various
ethnic groups arrived in Kansas. (Students are always amazed that anyone
came here on purpose :-) We use various benchmarks in history.  In the
African American migratin to our area, we "know" that between 6,000 and
20,000 African Americans left the South in 1879, the year of the
Exoduster.  We test this "knowledge" by accessing the Kansas State Census
for 1875 and 1885 and recording the data available for each black immigrant
from the South to our area.  Students then work backwards to determine "why"=

they left. Which leads into sharecropping and to slavery, and suddenly
Kansas - through historical perspective - looks like a logical choice.

     The questions about slavery and its legacy in our community arise
naturally and from the students.  Spin-off research allows students to
explore related questions about the community.

     Some of their data is already on line at
http://www.arthes.com/community/delaware/1875.html
http://www.arthes.com/community/delaware/1885.html

   Shameless plug :-)  But the kids are working hard, and I think using your=

own community as a portal into slavery and its legacy is one way to engage
the kids in new history of slavery and its legacy.

Take Care

Dennis Lawrence
Washington High School
English Teacher
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:41:30 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: Opening Statement
In-Reply-To:  <19991004221150542.AAA296.255@[199.219.186.3]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        i want to suggest that trying to consider from which "viewpoint"
of which "bewildering mass" of african folk we will consider in discussing
slavery is to make the inconsequential critical.


Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
School of Arts and Humanities           that we be seen as whole people
Studies in Literature                   in our actual complexities - as
ext 2018 JO 4.118                       individuals, as women, as human -
nia@utdallas.edu                        rather than as one of those
                                        problematic but familiar
                                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"

On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 don@ACSC.MEC.CUNY.EDU wrote:

> Deasr Colleagues,
>
> Don (in Wyoming) asks "How can we talk about an Afro-centric viewpoint when
> there was a bewildering variety of African languages, societies, and cultures in
>
> West Africa alone?"  Would that not also apply to a discussion of the
> Renaissance
> or fascism or Marxism or Post Modernism?  The African slave trade, from an
> African perspective, included nations, engendered identities, linguistic
> families,
> religious diffferences, ethnic antagonisms, ruling elites, class warfare, and
> class privilege.
> All to be included in the discussion.  How else do we make sense out of modern
> Africa
> or African slavery as a global phenomenon?  From what other perspective can we
> understand contemporary African American and African Caribbean American peoples
> and their ancestors?
>
> > Dear Colleagues,
> >
> > Don's (in New York) point is well taken, but which African point-of-view
> > would he suggest we view slavery from?  Don mentions "African peoples" but
> > the rest of his message implies on monolithic African point-of-view.  How
> > can we talk about an Afro-centric viewpoint when there was a bewildering
> > variety of African languages, societies, and cultures in West Africa
> > alone?  It seems to be me that any discussion of an African point-of-view
> > would be interesting, but posssibly meaninglessly reductionist.  After all,
> > wasn't the Alantic slave trade sustained by a supply of "Africans" made
> > possible by the fact Africans did not identify themselves as Africans, but
> > as members of more more specific socio-cultural groups?
> >
> > Respectfully submitted,
> >                           Don (in Wyoming)
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:49:31 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         "Donald R. Shaffer" 
Subject:      Re: Opening Statement

Dear Colleagues,

I'm not saying we shouldn't try to study slavery from an African point-of
view.  The problem is whether a representative African point-of-view exists
given the cultural diversity on the continent.  Would Don (in New York)
have some idea where we should start and where?  Would the Africans chosen
really get us closer to an African point-of-view or merely to an overly
reductionist representation of such, flavored by what certain modern
scholars wish they had perceived about the slavery.

Don in Wyoming
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:24:15 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         EUGENE BENNETT 
Subject:      Re: query before we start on 1 October
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Pennee,

Just a note to advise you that a week-long conference is being sponsored by
the NYU Dept of Africana Studies starting tomorrow that deals with slave
routes.  The address is www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/africana.The other
participants might be intersted and able to participate in some of the
workshops. Some events are being held at different venues other than NYU.
Please forward this message.
Catherine Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Pennee Bender 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: query before we start on 1 October


> Dear colleagues,
>
> As the Talking History Forum coordinator, I would like to encourage
> student engagement with the discussion as long as the focus remains
> on the process of teaching and leaning about slavery.  Tracey's plan
> of asking students to submit their comments for review prior to
> posting sounds like a good strategy for teachers who want to use the
> forum as part of a course.  The issue of student participation in
> these forums has not been raised before.  I think the question of how
> these forums can be used in the classroom is a worthwhile topic for
> discussion, or in this case in a "pre-forum" discussion.
>
> Pennee Bender
>
>
>
> At 9:11 AM -0400 9/29/99, Rick Halpern wrote:
> >Will we open this discussion to our students, or is it meant for
teachers?
> >I ask because I teach a year long documents-based course on slavery and
> >emancipation that has a significant computing/Internet component, and the
> >students might benefit from lurking around the edges of the slavery
forum.
> >On the other hand, I know how annoying uninformed student participation
can
> >be on some of the H-NET lists.
> >
> >BTW, those interested in our undergraduate courses with web sites can go
> >here for a browse:  http://www.ucl.ac.uk/history/courses
> >
> >Rick Halpern
> >University College London
>
> Pennee Bender
> Multi-Media Producer
> 212/966-4248 ext. 215
> Fax -212/966-4589
> American Social History Project/Center for Media and Learning
> Graduate School and University Center
> The City University of New York
> 99 Hudson Street
> New York, NY 10013
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:27:09 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Michael Furlan 
Subject:      "So what was so bad about slavery?"
In-Reply-To:  <000a01bf0ee1$1b280020$b1fa6420@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

As a longtime participant (and moderator) of a civil war history newsgroup
I often see modern Americans argue that even if (1860s North American) slavery
was not a positive good, it was superior to the state of many contemporary free
workers.  Looking only at  the material measures; food, clothing, mortality etc.

it's not hard to find evidence that a subset of a free population (if not in
North America, then in Europe, if not there then in Africa) that was "worse off"

than a typical slave.

My response lately has been to point out that, for example, it is unlikely that
even one of the poorly fed, and shabbily clothed men, about to make a near
suicidal attack like Gettysburg's "Pickett's Charge" would have traded places
with a nice safe slave on a peaceful plantation.

Just lately I came across another, more modern illustration of the relative
importance of physical to moral issues  when I heard about young cancer
patients.  It seems that when the children were asked to rank the various
sources of pain in  their life, they responded that being teased about being
bald was worse then the pain of chemotherapy, or a bone marrow procedure.  Which
reminded me of a summer my daughter spent a while back.  The first two months
were in a day camp where she was teased and bullied a bit.  Then she spent two
weeks in a hospital during which she was on a complete fast (nothing but water
and diet soda), had electrodes attached to her head, and IV tubes in her arm 24
hours a day.  Asked what was worse, camp or hospital, she quickly responded
"summer camp."

Which is to say that the real horrors of slavery were the non-material things.

Anyone care to expand on, disagree with this?  Or just point me to some good
books that discuss this issue.

Michael L. Furlan
moderator news:soc.history.war.us-civil-war
newsgroup webpage http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/7002
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:48:57 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: "So what was so bad about slavery?"
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        must agree with you - "the real horror of slavery. . .
nonmaterial" and encourage you to continue pointing this fact out to less
critical readers of the *text* of slavery.

        personally, i get a little annoyed when the question is presented
to me in another fashion:  it is pointd out to me, often, that blacks
enslaved each other and that *we* really have no argument with europeans
who did likewise.

        my response is usually to point out that the enslavement process
in africa did indeed begin with the africans themselves - north africans
(arabians) who enslaved tribes and then converted them to islam and then
freed them.  (one would not enslave a *brother* so once members converted
to islam, their freedom was restored - certainly, i am shortcutting here).
phillis wheatley's tribe had most likely been so enslaved prior to her
enslavement in the new world.  as a result, wheatley knew the arabic
script and language - perhaps one reason she learned the english script so
well *within 17 months of being in the wheatley household*.

        however, the fact that africans enslaved africans does not make
slavery and the european manifest destiny of which it was a part *right*.
to compare the two is to commit a logical fallacy - oversimplification, i
think, at the very least.




Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
School of Arts and Humanities           that we be seen as whole people
Studies in Literature                   in our actual complexities - as
ext 2018 JO 4.118                       individuals, as women, as human -
nia@utdallas.edu                        rather than as one of those
                                        problematic but familiar
                                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:50:31 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: "So what was so bad about slavery?"
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        re: books:
                try Francis Smith Foster's _Antebellum Slave Narratives_
                Janet Cornelius Duitsman _When I Can Read my Title Clear_
                Mellon's _Bullwhip Days_
                for starters


Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
School of Arts and Humanities           that we be seen as whole people
Studies in Literature                   in our actual complexities - as
ext 2018 JO 4.118                       individuals, as women, as human -
nia@utdallas.edu                        rather than as one of those
                                        problematic but familiar
                                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:22:17 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Gunja SenGupta 
Subject:      Re: "So what was so bad about slavery?"

As a very new member of the forum, I was rather stunned to see issues of
comparative slavery/labor conditions framed by the question "So what was so
bad about slavery?" The crux of the debate, as I see it, is not whether
North American slavery  was "better" or "worse" than unfree labor systems
elsewhere, but rather the ways in which it was different from those other
systems and why. As for comparisons between slave and wage laborers, I am
reminded of the controversy over the frequency of slave whippings: the issue
for slaves was not that per capita whippings were fewer than used to be
thought, but rather the knowledge (translated into a demoralizing
apprehension) that such whippings could take place at all.

> ----------
> From:         Michael Furlan[SMTP:furlanm@AGORON.COM]
> Sent:         Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:27 AM
> To:   SLAVERYFORUM@ASHP.LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
> Subject:      "So what was so bad about slavery?"
>
> As a longtime participant (and moderator) of a civil war history newsgroup
> I often see modern Americans argue that even if (1860s North American)
> slavery
> was not a positive good, it was superior to the state of many contemporary
> free
> workers.  Looking only at  the material measures; food, clothing,
> mortality etc.
>
> it's not hard to find evidence that a subset of a free population (if not
> in
> North America, then in Europe, if not there then in Africa) that was
> "worse off"
>
> than a typical slave.
>
> My response lately has been to point out that, for example, it is unlikely
> that
> even one of the poorly fed, and shabbily clothed men, about to make a near
> suicidal attack like Gettysburg's "Pickett's Charge" would have traded
> places
> with a nice safe slave on a peaceful plantation.
>
> Just lately I came across another, more modern illustration of the
> relative
> importance of physical to moral issues  when I heard about young cancer
> patients.  It seems that when the children were asked to rank the various
> sources of pain in  their life, they responded that being teased about
> being
> bald was worse then the pain of chemotherapy, or a bone marrow procedure.
> Which
> reminded me of a summer my daughter spent a while back.  The first two
> months
> were in a day camp where she was teased and bullied a bit.  Then she spent
> two
> weeks in a hospital during which she was on a complete fast (nothing but
> water
> and diet soda), had electrodes attached to her head, and IV tubes in her
> arm 24
> hours a day.  Asked what was worse, camp or hospital, she quickly
> responded
> "summer camp."
>
> Which is to say that the real horrors of slavery were the non-material
> things.
>
> Anyone care to expand on, disagree with this?  Or just point me to some
> good
> books that discuss this issue.
>
> Michael L. Furlan
> moderator news:soc.history.war.us-civil-war
> newsgroup webpage http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/7002
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:34:17 -0600
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Peter Cole 
Subject:      Re: "So what was so bad about slavery?"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I want to second Gunja SenGupta's point about the arbitrariness of =
quanitfying how horrific slavery was.  The debate over whipping being =
referred to is Gutman's critique of Fogel and Engerman's efforts to =
measure the material lives of enslaved blacks and, I believe, Gutman is =
right on.

But what is also interesting about the white Southern defense of slavery =
is its anti-capitalist implications.  Clearly, slavery was anything but a =
"positive good" for those enslaved but that slaveholders defended their =
labor system by attacking the emerging wage labor system of the North =
(industrial capitalism) is both fascinating and indicative of their (and =
Northern "free labor" supporters) commitment to some of the American =
Revolution's ideals of republicanism--especially notions of independence =
as the bulwark of a free society.


Peter Cole
Department of History
Boise State University
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:41:23 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Michael Furlan 
Subject:      Re: "So what was so bad about slavery?"
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:34:17 -0600, Peter Cole   wrote:

>Gutman's critique of Fogel and Engerman's

Or even consider Fogel's WITHOUT CONSENT OR CONTRACT, 388 pages of discussion of
slavery, and then the Afterword that essential argues, "Yes, but it was still
wrong."

>
>But what is also interesting about the white Southern defense of slavery is its anti-capitalist implications.

More interesting to me is Eugene Genovese's embrace of "The Southern Tradition"
as the only possible alternative to capitalism after the failure of his first
love Socialism.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:41:34 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Michael Furlan 
Subject:      Re: "So what was so bad about slavery?"
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thanks for the recommendations!

How about any fiction tittles, particularly juvenile literature?

I like Fatima Shaik's MELITTE for example.

Michael L. Furlan
moderator news:soc.history.war.us-civil-war
newsgroup webpage http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/7002

On Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:50:31 -0500, you wrote:

>        re: books:
>                try Francis Smith Foster's _Antebellum Slave Narratives_
>                Janet Cornelius Duitsman _When I Can Read my Title Clear_
>                Mellon's _Bullwhip Days_
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:48:33 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Michael Furlan 
Subject:      Re: "So what was so bad about slavery?"
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:48:57 -0500,   c  wrote:
>        personally, i get a little annoyed when the question is presented
>to me in another fashion:  it is pointd out to me, often, that blacks
>enslaved each other and that *we* really have no argument with europeans
>who did likewise.

What made my blood boil most recently was hearing friends of mine argue that
"slaves were valuable property, why would a slave owner mistreat a slave?"
"People today don't smash their cars up just for the fun of it."

I'll leave it to you to untangle that ball of confusion.

Michael L. Furlan
moderator news:soc.history.war.us-civil-war
newsgroup webpage http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/7002
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:56:07 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Stephen Whitman 
Subject:      Re: "So what was so bad about slavery?"
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        Earlier posts have argued against assessing slavery purely in
terms of material conditions of slave life, or the statistical incidence
of brutality, family break-up, and the like.  Along these lines, two
further observations.

        First, a prime advantage for slaveholders in the "uneven contest"
that Ira Berlin describes, lay in their ability to define and redefine the
context within which the master-slave relationship existed.  Slaves might
negotiate concessions from masters about work time, marital relations, or
economic activity, but masters could and did reinterpret these concessions
or withdraw them as their interests dictated.  A slave might win the right
to hire his own time, hoping thereby to increase his value to a master,
and avoid being sold apart from his spouse.  But a master might discover
that such a highly valuable slave could most readily be converted into
cash by sale, and proceed to do so.  (See Wm. Still's __Underground
Railroad__ for numerous stories on this theme.)

        The master's power to recontextualize his relations with the slave
meant that the concessions to slave interests likely to be most
consistently honored would be those that most consistently advanced the
master's interests.  From a slave's perspective, you could only count on
gaining and retaining measures of autonomy through activities that
underwrote or reinforced the whole institution of slavery.  You might, for
example, be allowed even to buy yourself out of slavery, but only at
prices that ensured your master had plenty of money to buy more slaves.

        The sense that concessions won by slaves could become props to
slavery may well have been one of the most "insidious" aspects of slavery,
to quote from Christopher Morris, who expounds these ideas in a 1998 piece
in the Journal of American History, entitled _The Articulation of Two
Worlds: The Master-Slave Relationship Reconsidered__.

        Steve Whitman, Mt. St. Mary's College, Emmitsburg, MD
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:36:21 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: "So what was so bad about slavery?"
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

What made my blood boil most recently was hearing friends of mine argue
that
"slaves were valuable property, why would a slave owner mistreat a slave?"
"People today don't smash their cars up just for the fun of it."

        i would point my *friends* attention to the fact that the argument
they present is rife with fallacy.  first and foremost, they are commiting
the logical fallacy of false analogy.  a person - even a person
considered to be ones *property* - is not a car. the two
cannot be compared.




Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
School of Arts and Humanities           that we be seen as whole people
Studies in Literature                   in our actual complexities - as
ext 2018 JO 4.118                       individuals, as women, as human -
nia@utdallas.edu                        rather than as one of those
                                        problematic but familiar
                                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:43:05 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: "So what was so bad about slavery?"
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

How about any fiction tittles, particularly juvenile literature?

        i don't know of any juvenile titles - that's not my area so
unfortunately i have not researched it.  however, i think one of my
professors is on this list (dr. blyden - you there?).  if not i can ask
her about some juvenile titles.


Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
School of Arts and Humanities           that we be seen as whole people
Studies in Literature                   in our actual complexities - as
ext 2018 JO 4.118                       individuals, as women, as human -
nia@utdallas.edu                        rather than as one of those
                                        problematic but familiar
                                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:45:33 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Ira Berlin 
Subject:      Slave Forum, week one
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

----------------------
Ira Berlin
iberlin@deans.umd.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:05:31 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         David Cecil 
Subject:      Re: "So what was so bad about slavery?"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Although I have not been confronted with the argument that slavery was
materially superior to Northern free labor, if I was I would respond by
asking the person who made this argument exactly how much material benefit
they would have to receive in order to induce them to give up their freedom
of speech, religion association, etc.  It is unlikely that anyone would give
up their "rights" for a marginally better material existence.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Furlan 
To: SLAVERYFORUM@ASHP.LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU

Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:33 AM
Subject: "So what was so bad about slavery?"


>As a longtime participant (and moderator) of a civil war history newsgroup
>I often see modern Americans argue that even if (1860s North American)
slavery
>was not a positive good, it was superior to the state of many contemporary
free
>workers.  Looking only at  the material measures; food, clothing, mortality
etc.
>
>it's not hard to find evidence that a subset of a free population (if not
in
>North America, then in Europe, if not there then in Africa) that was "worse
off"
>
>than a typical slave.
>
>My response lately has been to point out that, for example, it is unlikely
that
>even one of the poorly fed, and shabbily clothed men, about to make a near
>suicidal attack like Gettysburg's "Pickett's Charge" would have traded
places
>with a nice safe slave on a peaceful plantation.
>
>Just lately I came across another, more modern illustration of the relative
>importance of physical to moral issues  when I heard about young cancer
>patients.  It seems that when the children were asked to rank the various
>sources of pain in  their life, they responded that being teased about
being
>bald was worse then the pain of chemotherapy, or a bone marrow procedure.
Which
>reminded me of a summer my daughter spent a while back.  The first two
months
>were in a day camp where she was teased and bullied a bit.  Then she spent
two
>weeks in a hospital during which she was on a complete fast (nothing but
water
>and diet soda), had electrodes attached to her head, and IV tubes in her
arm 24
>hours a day.  Asked what was worse, camp or hospital, she quickly responded
>"summer camp."
>
>Which is to say that the real horrors of slavery were the non-material
things.
>
>Anyone care to expand on, disagree with this?  Or just point me to some
good
>books that discuss this issue.
>
>Michael L. Furlan
>moderator news:soc.history.war.us-civil-war
>newsgroup webpage http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/7002
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:35:40 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: "So what was so bad about slavery?"
In-Reply-To:  <000401bf11c0$194af8c0$15e0bfa8@computer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        i want to say that i am enjoying this discussion wherein we appear
to be discussing a *text* of slavery and employing logos to *analyze* that
text.  a delightful exercise.


Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
School of Arts and Humanities           that we be seen as whole people
Studies in Literature                   in our actual complexities - as
ext 2018 JO 4.118                       individuals, as women, as human -
nia@utdallas.edu                        rather than as one of those
                                        problematic but familiar
                                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:41:01 +0200
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Daniel Goodey 
Subject:      Anti-Slavery International
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Anti-Slavery International - Home Page - Remember to Bookmark this page.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:11:55 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Stephen Whitman 
Subject:      Re: Material conditions of slaves and wage workers
In-Reply-To:  <000401bf11c0$194af8c0$15e0bfa8@computer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        Frederick Douglass reportedly parried this question by noting that
"my old job on the planatation is still open" if anyone wanted to apply
for it.  'Nuff said.

        For those who teach slavery, a more extended treatment of the same
question appears in Solomon Northup's __Twelve Years A Slave__ (available
in paperback from LSU Press).  Northup's slave narrative is particularly
effective because Northup was born free.  His views on slavery, written in
1852, are designed among other things, to refute the notion that slaves
were better off than free blacks (or other free workers).  This book, in
my experience, engages students more than any other slave narrative.

        Steve Whitman, Mt. St. Mary's College, Emmitsburg, MD
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:47:50 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Pennee Bender 
Subject:      Ira Berlin --Week One
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Dear Forum Participants --

There seems a problem with the listserve software that is sending
some messages as blanks.  We are looking into it.  In the meantime I
am forwarding Ira Berlin's comments and apologize that they are so
delayed in reaching the forum.

Thanks for your patience, Pennee Bender


Folks:


After more than a week of electronic conversation, we have about
three discussions going.  Let me comment on them, perhaps to draw
them together.

1. First, on the perspectives historians take in writing about
slavery, I would urge that they should treat it like every other
matter of historical concern.  That is, they should view slavery from
every side of the table: that of the slave, the slaveowner, and the
nonslaveholder, white and black.  What is interesting here is how
historians define their categories, for each must be historicized and
hence is problematic.  The slave perspective is not coincident with
the African or black perspective, any more than the slaveholder
perspective is coincident with the European or European-American
perspective.  It is precisely in defining the meaning of "African" or
"black" (or North or South, male or female, for that matter) and
understanding when, where, and how they emerge as a meaningful
categories that interests us as historians.  The recent work of
Michael Gomez, EXCHANGING OUR COUNTRY MARKS, makes some important
suggestions in that direction.

2. Second, several people have suggested how the discussion of what
slaves do most of the time--work--is a useful entry into the
classroom discussion of slavery.  I am very sympathetic with this
approach and have employed it myself.  I find it gets students
involved in questions of the nature of slavery in terms of the
day-to-day struggle between masters and slaves and the larger
questions about domination--moral and practical.  In this respect, it
addresses the very important point made by Stephen Whitman respecting
the power of slaves to control their own lives and the power of the
owning class to control them.  It is the overwhelming power of the
owners that nullifies the facile comparison between slavery and other
forms of domination.  "The good machinist oils his machines" analogy
have never carried much weigh.

3.  Finally, let me note the fascinating project that links the
immigration of former slaves with the experience of other new
arrivals in Kansas during the nineteenth century.  Such projects,
which beg the question of what kinds of cultural baggage black people
carried out of slavery, I believe, provide an excellent mechanism for
integrating slavery into an understanding of American society.  I
hope we can hear more about it and about other similar projects.

4.  Finally, finally, I would very much like to incorporate the late
arriving commentary from Steven Mintz respecting the disruptive
effects of the American Revolution on slavery into our conversation.
Short of the Civil War, no event had as powerful an impact on chattel
bondage in mainland North America.  Mintz's comments offers all sorts
of opportunities to connect slavery's mainland history with that of
the rest of the Atlantic and to compare the impact of the Revolution
and the Civil War.  Let's take them.

----------------------
Ira Berlin
iberlin@deans.umd.edu
Pennee Bender
Multi-Media Producer
212/966-4248 ext. 215
Fax -212/966-4589
American Social History Project/Center for Media and Learning
Graduate School and University Center
The City University of New York
99 Hudson Street
New York, NY 10013
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:43:35 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
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From:         Guocun Yang 
Organization: Manchester Community Technical College
Subject:      Re: Ira Berlin --Week One
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Hi Pennee. Thank you for sending Berlin's summary comments. Reading his
message makes feel that more people participated than I have seen. I am
particularly interested in reading Steven Mintz' remarks mentioned in the
summaries. If possible without much work, could please forward  a copy of
Mintz's message?
Sincerely,
Guocun Yang

Pennee Bender wrote:

> Dear Forum Participants --
>
> There seems a problem with the listserve software that is sending
> some messages as blanks.  We are looking into it.  In the meantime I
> am forwarding Ira Berlin's comments and apologize that they are so
> delayed in reaching the forum.
>
> Thanks for your patience, Pennee Bender
>
> Folks:
>
> After more than a week of electronic conversation, we have about
> three discussions going.  Let me comment on them, perhaps to draw
> them together.
>
> 1. First, on the perspectives historians take in writing about
> slavery, I would urge that they should treat it like every other
> matter of historical concern.  That is, they should view slavery from
> every side of the table: that of the slave, the slaveowner, and the
> nonslaveholder, white and black.  What is interesting here is how
> historians define their categories, for each must be historicized and
> hence is problematic.  The slave perspective is not coincident with
> the African or black perspective, any more than the slaveholder
> perspective is coincident with the European or European-American
> perspective.  It is precisely in defining the meaning of "African" or
> "black" (or North or South, male or female, for that matter) and
> understanding when, where, and how they emerge as a meaningful
> categories that interests us as historians.  The recent work of
> Michael Gomez, EXCHANGING OUR COUNTRY MARKS, makes some important
> suggestions in that direction.
>
> 2. Second, several people have suggested how the discussion of what
> slaves do most of the time--work--is a useful entry into the
> classroom discussion of slavery.  I am very sympathetic with this
> approach and have employed it myself.  I find it gets students
> involved in questions of the nature of slavery in terms of the
> day-to-day struggle between masters and slaves and the larger
> questions about domination--moral and practical.  In this respect, it
> addresses the very important point made by Stephen Whitman respecting
> the power of slaves to control their own lives and the power of the
> owning class to control them.  It is the overwhelming power of the
> owners that nullifies the facile comparison between slavery and other
> forms of domination.  "The good machinist oils his machines" analogy
> have never carried much weigh.
>
> 3.  Finally, let me note the fascinating project that links the
> immigration of former slaves with the experience of other new
> arrivals in Kansas during the nineteenth century.  Such projects,
> which beg the question of what kinds of cultural baggage black people
> carried out of slavery, I believe, provide an excellent mechanism for
> integrating slavery into an understanding of American society.  I
> hope we can hear more about it and about other similar projects.
>
> 4.  Finally, finally, I would very much like to incorporate the late
> arriving commentary from Steven Mintz respecting the disruptive
> effects of the American Revolution on slavery into our conversation.
> Short of the Civil War, no event had as powerful an impact on chattel
> bondage in mainland North America.  Mintz's comments offers all sorts
> of opportunities to connect slavery's mainland history with that of
> the rest of the Atlantic and to compare the impact of the Revolution
> and the Civil War.  Let's take them.
>
> ----------------------
> Ira Berlin
> iberlin@deans.umd.edu
> Pennee Bender
> Multi-Media Producer
> 212/966-4248 ext. 215
> Fax -212/966-4589
> American Social History Project/Center for Media and Learning
> Graduate School and University Center
> The City University of New York
> 99 Hudson Street
> New York, NY 10013

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:24:27 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
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From:         Paddy Swiney 
Subject:      Re: Ira Berlin --Week One
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I , too would like Steven Mintz' remarks, as I now have Ira Berlin's in
duplicate.  Thanks!
P.D. Swiney
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:54:18 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Pennee Bender 
Subject:      Steven Mintz's comments
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Dear Forum Participants --

Steven Mintz's  comments that Ira Berlin referred to in his last post
were actually posted to another listserve, but he has agreed to also
post them here.  So here they are:

On the Slavery discussion list 
I posed a question: I wanted to know how slavery specialists
explain how the institution was reestablished in the South in
the aftermath of the Revolution. The Revolution--which was
mainly fought in the South--had extraordinarily disruptive
effects on the institution of slavery. Probably a third of
Georgia's slaves, and 25,000 South Carolina slaves, became
free as a result of the fighting.

Yet in the war's aftermath, as Professor Berlin has shown,
Southern slavery was not only re-imposed, it was strengthened.
As the Slavery list discussion made clear, the process through
which Southern slavery was re-consolidated is still largely
unexplored.

The strengthening of slavery following the Revolution,
raises a frightening possibility: that had Lincoln
failed to win reelection in 1864 (and as late as the summer
of '64 he was convinced that he would lose), then it is
conceivable that slavery might have been preserved or
reestablished in a postwar South. Professor Berlin has shown
the extent to which enslaved African Americans freed themselves
by weakening and disrupting th slave system during the
Civil War. But despite wartime upheaval and the flight of tens of
thousands  of slaves to contraband camps and enlistment of tens of
thousands of former slaves in the Union army, slavery might yet
have been maintained if the North and South had reached some
kind of negotiated settlement.  Lincoln himself predicted that
slavery would last until the 1960s.

Please feel free to send these thoughts to the forum.  I'd
be very interested in others' thoughts.

Sincerely,
Steven Mintz
University of Houston
Pennee Bender
Multi-Media Producer
212/966-4248 ext. 215
Fax -212/966-4589
American Social History Project/Center for Media and Learning
Graduate School and University Center
The City University of New York
99 Hudson Street
New York, NY 10013
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:15:50 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
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From:         Paddy Swiney 
Subject:      Re: Steven Mintz's comments
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I am not a slavery scholar, but it was my understanding that importation
was not illegal until 1808, and smuggling continued after that.  And
slavery persisted in the North as well, under gradual emancipation schemes.
As for slavery lasting until the 1960's, under jim crow forms, it did,
didn't it?
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:35:18 -0400
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              arc1a88.burl.sover.net [207.136.201.216] 207.136.201.216 Fri, 15
              Oct 1999 14:27:20 -0400 (EDT)
From:         Stephen Homick 
Subject:      Re: Steven Mintz's comments
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El 15 Oct 99, a las 12:15, Paddy Swiney  scripsit:

> I am not a slavery scholar, but it was my understanding that
> importation was not illegal until 1808, and smuggling continued
> after that.

Actually, the Constitution's so-called importation  clause (Art.
I:9:1)enjoined Congress from enacting any legislation to prohibit
the trade before 1808; it didn't obligate Congress in any way
shape or form to ban traffic in slaves. In the context of the
First Article generally, the clause perversely undercut the power
granted Congress under the commerce clause (I:8:3).

In this and other parts of the Constitution that make albeit
oblique reference to the peculiar institution, one glimpses the
twisted, tortured Byzantine reasoning needed to reconcile the grim
reality of unalloyed human bondage with guiding principles that
trumpeted the fundamental equality and imprescriptible, God-given
rights of "all men."

That said, perhaps it might be useful to broaden the scope of
Mintz's query to embrace the Declaration of Independence. For
instance, how was it was received among slaveholders?

Homick
Champlain College
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:54:13 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Michael Furlan 
Subject:      Query-Best Definition of Slavery in One Sentence
In-Reply-To:  <86256809.0070096A.00@notes.tulsa.cc.ok.us>
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Has anyone come up with a better short definition than Patterson's (I am working
from memory):

Slavery: The permanent, violent domination of a natally alienated and generally
dishonored people.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:07:19 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: Query-Best Definition of Slavery in One Sentence
In-Reply-To:  <5tkHOEuXFvO5REknfN7ApJdAldSK@4ax.com>
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        i want to suggest that the term captivity, rather than slavery,
best defines the status of African peoples kidnapped from their homeland.
the term is not mine - i appropriate it from dr. hal at the claremont
college.




Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
A Poetics of Black Women's              that we be seen as whole people
 Literature, 1773-Present               in our actual complexities - as
The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"

On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, Michael Furlan wrote:

> Has anyone come up with a better short definition than Patterson's (I am working
> from memory):
>
> Slavery: The permanent, violent domination of a natally alienated and generally
> dishonored people.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:09:50 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: Query-Best Definition of Slavery in One Sentence
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        more on the subject: *best definition of slavery* - i want to
suggest further that it is to the *captured* africans that we must look to
for a definition.  a definition from one not likely to have been
*enslaved* within that *peculiar institution* is a defintion from the
standpoint of privilege and is necessarily suspect.



Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
A Poetics of Black Women's              that we be seen as whole people
 Literature, 1773-Present               in our actual complexities - as
The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:27:13 -0400
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              arc1a87.burl.sover.net [207.136.201.215] 207.136.201.215 Sat, 16
              Oct 1999 00:21:32 -0400 (EDT)
From:         Stephen Homick 
Subject:      Re: Query-Best Definition of Slavery in One Sentence
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El 15 Oct 99, a las 21:54, Michael Furlan  scripsit:

> Has anyone come up with a better short definition than Patterson's (I am working
> from memory):
>
> Slavery: The permanent, violent domination of a natally alienated and generally
> dishonored people.

I believe you're referring to his _Slavery and social death: a
comparative study_ (ca. 1982, 1983). What sticks out in my mind
about it, is the proposition Patterson lays down that slavery is
anything but the "peculiar institution" it's been made out to be
in this country. What's more, if memory serves, he buttresses this
peculiar--at least as far as the conventional wisdom goes--
proposition with some very compelling evidence.

Now, the question of how to grapple with and perhaps refute
Patterson's peculiar proposition arises. If we accept his claim
that human bondage has always been part and parcel of the human
condition, then what's so peculiar about its onset and development
in the U.S? Correlatively, if the peculiarity of slavery, American
style can be established, then how might it best be taught to a
student audience that often as not has been lulled in self-
satisfied somnolence by--for want of better names--the "Yankee
Doodle" and "Magnolia" myths, respectively?

Homick
Champlain College

"Ira Furor Brevis Est "

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:32:59 +0200
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Daniel Goodey 
Subject:      Re: Query-Best Definition of Slavery in One Sentence
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> Has anyone come up with a better short definition than Patterson's (I am
working
> from memory):
>
> Slavery: The permanent, violent domination of a natally alienated and
generally
> dishonored people.

Ngugi ma Thiong'o defines slavery as the exploitation, domination and
oppression of nations and peoples.

More specifically, he classifies slavery as one of three phases in history:
    (1) Slavery: This was the period when Africans were seized as slaves and
were shipped across the seas to build the New World of America, the West
Indies and Latin America.
The other two phases being:
    (2) Classical colonialism: Then came the period of direct colonial
occupation.  This was characterised by the exploitation of Africa's natural
resources and the exploitation of African labour by European capital.
Africa became the source of raw materials, the source of cheap labour and
also a market for European goods.  This exploitation was accompanied by
direct political rule and direct oppression and suppression of the people by
colonial armies and police.
    (3) Neo-colonialism: Then came the period of neo-colonialism under which
most of Africa now lives.  This has also been called the period of "flag
independence".  This means a situation where a client indigenous government
is ruling and oppressing people on behalf of American, European and Japanese
capital.  Such a regime acts as a policeman of international capital and
often mortgages a whole country for arms and crumbs from the masters' table.
It never changes the colonial economy of development and uneven
development.'

Ngugi wa Thiong'o, Writers in Politics (London: Heinemann Educational Books
Ltd., 1981),119-120.

--------------------------------------------------------
The following definition is taken from the organisation 'Anti-Slavery
International'
(cf. http://www.antislavery.org/ )

When it adopted an international treaty prohibiting slavery almost 60 years
ago, the United Nations' predecessor, the League of Nations, gave the
following definition of slavery:

"Slavery is the status or condition of a person over whom any or all of the
powers attaching to the right of ownership are exercised." (Article 1 (1) of
the 1926 Slavery Convention)

Although this Convention was intended primarily to abolish slavery and the
slave trade in countries where these were still legal practices, this
definition of slavery makes clear that the international community was also
determined to abolish a wide range of other practices which involved partial
"powers" of ownership and were considered to be "analogous to slavery", even
though they had not previously been defined as slavery. These included debt
bondage, false adoption (of children to work as domestic servants),
servitude imposed by serfdom or caste, and domestic slavery. Some of these
were the subject of explicit prohibition by the United Nations 1956
Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery, the Slave Trade, and
Institutions and Practices Similar to Slavery.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

The value of understanding the slavery of the past is more than a simple
question of history.  It is an imperative for understanding international
and intranational relations today.

All the best,

Daniel

Daniel.Goodey@HIW.KULeuven.ac.Be
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 17 Oct 1999 00:24:40 +0000
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Shane White 
Organization: The University of Sydney
Subject:      Re Ira Berlin's Summary of Week 1
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On 18 October 1821, before a crowd of some 700 whites and 1500 blacks,
the sheriff of Princess Ann, in Somerset County Maryland, executed
Jenny, a 70-year-old African-American woman. Seconds before Jenny was
hung "several hundreds of the colored people" turned their backs to the
gallows, squatted on the ground, "covered their faces with their hands,
and uttered a simultaneous groan, which while it expressed their
feelings, added not a little to the horror of the scene." In this case,
the sounds created by slaves induced in white onlookers feelings of
cultural dissonance.

It is incidents such as this, and it's easy enough to come up with
hundreds of them from the time of slavery, that prompt me to register an
equivocal dissent from the recent emphasis that historians have given to
slaves' work. Phil Morgan in Slave Counterpoint and Ira Berlin in Many
Thousands Gone are both far too subtle and sophisticated to slide into a
crop or work determinism, but since 1989, when Berlin and Morgan
organised an important conference on Slavery and Cultivation, there has
been some danger of this happening in less skilled hands.

Yes, work was important in slave lives. Yes, they probably spent more
time doing it than anything else. But they also probably spent nearly as
much time sleeping, and I haven't seen too many histories of slave and
sleep (tho' I'd love to read one, it'd have to be more interesting than
reading another account of slavery and rice production). Many academics'
sense of their selves is very closely tied up with their work -- just
look at their divorce rate -- but I think a little care is needed before
that experience is, consciously or not, generalized to other places and
other times. As well, too heavy an emphasis on "work" all too easily
promotes a slippage into seeing things from the slaveowners perspective:
it is as if the aggrieved voices of whites whinging and moaning about
slaves acquire, almost by dint of repetition, an undeserved legitimacy.

What I personally find rather more revealing in the history of slavery
are those times of cultural dissonance, moments when black or white just
looked at the doings of the other group and shook their heads.
Reading/writing from Australia I have inevitably been strongly
influenced by historical ethnography and the so-called "Melbourne
School" (basically Greg Dening, Inga Clendinnen, Donna Merwick and Rhys
Isaac), but, regardless, I'd suggest that getting to the point where we
can understand that "simultaneous groan" as the sheriff dropped Jenny
off the scaffold would reveal more about slave life than any number of
studies of tobacco/wheat/whatever they grew cultivation in Somerset
County, Maryland.

I agree with Professor Berlin that there has been a flurry of
interesting work done on slavery of late. Much more is also on the verge
of coming out and I'm hopeful that these publications may reveal more
about the cultural life of slaves, an area in which I'm not sure
knowledge has advanced that much since Lawrence Levine published his
monumental Black Culture and Black Consciousness or perhaps Charles
Joyner brought out Down by the Riverside.

To my mind, one of the principal virtues of Many Thousands Gone -- (and
it has many, it is a great book) -- is the way it helps show that slave
culture did not travel in conveniently straight lines, that African
elements were not necessarily more important in slave culture in the
seventeenth or eighteenth century than the nineteenth. Contingency,
chance, the presence of a charismatic individual, all these and more
helped shape the contours of slave culture in different places at
different times. The more I read of the primary material about slavery
the more I am impressed by the messy variety of slave experiences and
the less satisfying I find some of the overarching explanations for
aspects of slavery. It is a tossup which group of people raise my
sceptical eyebrow higher, those who argue that southern planters engaged
in a deliberate cultural genocide eradicating "African" practices
(personally I doubt they could have organized a Sunday School picnic) or
those who find the root of all slave culture in some particular place or
other in Africa. The genius of the slaves was their ability to take what
they found around them, combine it with memories of Africa, and create a
vibrant and dynamic culture, one that is properly and accurately
designated as "African American." Calling it anything else slights,
indeed once more erases, the considerable achievement of the slaves.

In the end, it is perhaps because I am an outsider, writing at a
considerable distance from America, teaching Australians not yankees
about slavery, that I am less concerned with tying slavery up into a
number of neat generalizations or moral lessons. I am much more
interested in the quotidian details of the stories of ordinary African
Americans grappling to exist under extremely unpromising conditions, the
gritty textures of black life on a rice plantation or on the street in
New York. Irony, ambivalence, ambiguity and complexity rather than
certainty are the sort of words I use. In short, along with Mies van der
Rohe I believe that god is in the detail, and whatever messiness results
from looking that closely is of little concern.

Let me end my probably overlong and pompous credo with another example,
not from slavery but from New York in 1834, seven years after the end of
slavery in the state. In late December a black man named John Johnson,
probably an ex-slave, climbed to the roof of the five storey Union
Building and, until arrested, proceeded to shovel the fresh snow onto
the heads of anyone passing by on the street below. According to the New
York Sun, Johnson had been "amusing himself," but he had also taken
"particular pains" to throw off a full shovel load whenever a sleigh
went by. I would have liked to have met John Johnson.

cheers shane

Shane White
History Department
University of Sydney
NSW 2006
Australia
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:37:22 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Michael Furlan 
Subject:      Re: Query-Best Definition of Slavery in One Sentence
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:07:19 -0500, you wrote:
>        i want to suggest that the term captivity, rather than slavery,
>best defines the status of African peoples kidnapped from their homeland.

What then to describe the second, third and following generations of slaves?

At some point in time the homeland of the African-Americans became the United
States.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:12:37 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: Query-Best Definition of Slavery in One Sentence
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        i want to suggest that the term captivity, rather than slavery,
>best defines the status of African peoples kidnapped from their homeland.

What then to describe the second, third and following generations of
slaves?

At some point in time the homeland of the African-Americans became the
United
States.

        the second, third, and following generation were - are? - the
descendents of captives.  certainly, that is one
definition.  in general; however, i would want the defintion of those
groups to come from those groups.  i think that *defining* is essential to
naming and *naming* essential to self-determination.

        and, although i was initially a bit annoyed - i read the language
in which the exercise was couched as *flippant* let us say - i want to say
that i think this is a valuable exercise:  looking for the *best* answer
neccesarily - i think - supposes a *best* answerer(s).  :)




Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
A Poetics of Black Women's              that we be seen as whole people
 Literature, 1773-Present               in our actual complexities - as
The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:34:33 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Michael Furlan 
Subject:      Re: Query-Best Definition of Slavery in One Sentence
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:12:37 -0500, you wrote:

>        and, although i was initially a bit annoyed - i read the language
>in which the exercise was couched as *flippant* let us say

Change "best" to personal favorite then.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:47:20 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: Query-Best Definition of Slavery in One Sentence
In-Reply-To:  <5FwKOK5EupYCHKxw2xnbSCVgNAzK@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>        and, although i was initially a bit annoyed - i read the language
>in which the exercise was couched as *flippant* let us say

Change "best" to personal favorite then.

        i no longer have the context in which this appeared.  someone
help?
        are we speaking about the title?  sorry.  it's been a long night
spent grading papers.



Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
A Poetics of Black Women's              that we be seen as whole people
 Literature, 1773-Present               in our actual complexities - as
The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:35:03 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Paddy Swiney 
Subject:      Re: Query-Best Definition of Slavery in One Sentence
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I would like to remind everybody, in the interests of clarity, that the
eighteenth century definition of "peculiar" is not ours--"peculiar" meant "
particular" rather than strange.  Unfortunately,  slavery was not
considered "strange" to the eighteenth or nineteenth century.  pds
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:43:50 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: Query-Best Definition of Slavery in One Sentence
In-Reply-To:  <8625680E.004A4495.00@notes.tulsa.cc.ok.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I would like to remind everybody, in the interests of clarity, that the
eighteenth century definition of "peculiar" is not ours--"peculiar" meant
"
particular" rather than strange.  Unfortunately,  slavery was not
considered "strange" to the eighteenth or nineteenth century.  pds


        thanks for the clarification.  when i use peculiar, i am using the
term to point to the *particular* not necessarily the *strange*.
peculiarility is a sort of sign post, i think, and i may be rambling here,
but in general, i don't think of peculiar (in the immediate sense) as
being strange, rather distinctive.



Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
A Poetics of Black Women's              that we be seen as whole people
 Literature, 1773-Present               in our actual complexities - as
The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:57:30 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Comments:     SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) svjcbiti from
              arc1a59.burl.sover.net [207.136.201.187] 207.136.201.187 Mon, 18
              Oct 1999 17:50:54 -0400 (EDT)
From:         Stephen Homick 
Subject:      Re: Query-Best Definition of Slavery in One Sentence
In-Reply-To:  <8625680E.004A4495.00@notes.tulsa.cc.ok.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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El 18 Oct 99, a las 8:35, Paddy Swiney  scripsit:

> I would like to remind everybody, in the interests of clarity, that the
> eighteenth century definition of "peculiar" is not ours--"peculiar" meant "
> particular" rather than strange.  Unfortunately,  slavery was not
> considered "strange" to the eighteenth or nineteenth century.  pds

Well, of course; and that's how Patterson understands the word.
What interests me isn't so much the semantics and etymology of the
the name "peculiar institution," though they surely are intriguing
by themselves, but rather the constellation of circumstances--
social, legal, ecological and political--that gave rise to it:
That is, what made slavery in His Britannic Majesty's North
American colonies and subsequently the United States so
_peculiarly_ Anglo-American?

Homick
Champlain College

"The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly
is to fill the world with fools."
- --Herbert Spencer, 1844

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:29:50 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         EUGENE BENNETT 
Subject:      Slavery under the Spanish and portuguese
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I woullde like your opinion of how the slavery under the Spanish and =
Portuguese in the Americas was different from the British .  This topic =
is rarely covered when there is a discussion of this "peculiar" =
institution.


Catherine Scott
Spanish Teacher
New York City =20

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I woullde like your opinion of how the =
slavery=20
under the Spanish and Portuguese in the Americas was different from the =
British=20
.  This topic is rarely covered when there is a discussion of this=20
"peculiar" institution.
 
 
Catherine Scott
Spanish Teacher
New York City =
 

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:06:40 +0200
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Loni Bramson-Lerche 
Subject:      Re: SLAVERYFORUM Digest - 17 Oct 1999 to 18 Oct 1999 (#1999-16)
In-Reply-To:  <199910190352.FAA10653@ping3.ping.be>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:00 AM 19-10-99 -0400, you wrote:
hteenth century definition of "peculiar" is not ours--"peculiar" meant
>"
>particular" rather than strange.  Unfortunately,  slavery was not
>considered "strange" to the eighteenth or nineteenth century.  pds

Nor before the eighteenth century, nor in the twentieth century.  Sorry to
butt in with this perspective, but I have been feeling uncomfortable while
lurking at what **seems** (I also joined late) to be a perspective of not
placing pre-Civil War American slavery in the context of global history.
Also, having lived in Nigeria and being active in anti-prostitution work, I
know that slavery (whatever definition you want) still exists.  There are
still "slave trails."  This time, however, they *generally* lead to certain
Islamic countries.

Please note, I fully understand that the discussion has a particular focus
and I certainly do not want to derail it.  My problem is that I would like
to see at least some recognition of "the big picture."

Loni Bramson
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:12:31 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Stephen Homick 
Subject:      Re: Slavery under the Spanish and portuguese
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:29:50 -0400, EUGENE BENNETT 
wrote:

>I woullde like your opinion of how the slavery under the Spanish and
Portuguese in the Americas was different from the British .  This topic is
rarely covered when there is a discussion of this "peculiar" institution.
>
>
>Catherine Scott
>Spanish Teacher
>New York City
>


In the interest of brevity, I'll give a sole yet significant example of the
difference. In His Catholic Majesty's Western Indies, slave marriages were
legally recognized, whereas they weren't in His Britannic Majesty's North
American Plantations and under the slave regime of the United States that
succeeded them.  Needless to say, that recognition accorded slaves in
Spanish America a legitimate civil identity that their coevals in British
America were denied. Put another way, property rights seem to have ceded
pride of place to family values in the Hispanic world.

Here's a snippet of the pertinent legislation, in this case from the 1826
slave code of Puerto Rico:

Cap=EDtulo IX: Del matrimonio de los esclavos y de lo que debe practicarse
cuando los consortes sean de distintos due=F1os.

Art=EDculo 1=B0: Los due=F1os de los esclavos deber=E1n evitar los tratos o =
accesos
il=EDcitos de los sexos, fomentando los matrimonios, sin impedir el que se
casen con los de otros due=F1os, proporcionando en este caso a los casados l=
a
reuni=F3n en una case y bajo un mismo techo.

Art=EDculo 2=B0: Para conseguir esta reuni=F3n, y que los c=F3nyuges cumplan=
 el fin
de matrimonio, seguir=E1 la mujer al marido, compr=E1ndola e due=F1o de =E9s=
te,
segun se conviniere, y si no, a justa tasaci=F3n de peritos nombrados por la=
s
partes, y por el tercero que, en caso de discordia, nombrar=E1 la justicia; =
y
si el amo del marido no se conviene en la compra, tendr=E1 la misma acci=F3n=
 el
que los fuere de la mujer.

Art=EDculo 3=B0: Si el amo del marido comprare la mujer y =E9sta tuviese hij=
os
que no hayan cumplido los tres a=F1os, deber=E1 comprarlos tambi=E9n, porque=

seg=FAn derecho durante este tiempo deben las madres criarlos.

These laws developed from local custom and usage, and were first codified
in 1768, then subsequently in 1769, 1784 and 1789. The Puerto Rican slave
code of 1826 represents the culmination of this process.  Even a
superficial scan of it will suffice to reveal some of the more palpable
differences between the Iberian and Anglo-Saxon variants of slavery,
American style.

Homick
Champlain College
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:43:49 -0400
Reply-To:     "J. Douglas Deal" 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         "J. Douglas Deal" 
Subject:      Re: Slavery under the Spanish and portuguese
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Stephen Homick presents a contrast that might need some modification on
both sides. When examining slavery and families in Latin America, one
always has to ask whether laws did in fact reflect ordinary or customary
practices. In the Anglo-American case, the absence of legal protections
for slave marriages and families did leave the door open to horrendous
abuses, but in varied contexts slaves nevertheless did form conjugal
unions, have children, and enjoy a "family life" of sorts. To see what
marriage and family had come to mean to slaves in the American South, one
need only explore the behavior and leading concerns of those who freed
themselves or were otherwise emancipated during the war years.

Slaveowners throughout the Americas both violated and fostered what we
might call "family values" in their own "peculiar" ways. Of course, the
national or ethnic differences among them mattered, but the complex and
"messy" realities of the slave experience that Shane White reminds us of
were shaped by countless other contingencies and conditions as well.

Can Professor Homick recommend to the list any exciting new investigations
of slavery by Latin American historians--in particular, works that move
beyond old questions and stereotypes and onto the new terrain that Shane
White, Philip Morgan, Kathleen Brown, Michael Gomez, Ira Berlin, and many
others are beginning to map out for Anglo-America?



Douglas Deal
Professor of History and Director of General Education
State University of New York at Oswego
Oswego, NY 13126
deal@oswego.edu (e-mail)
(315)-341-5631 (voice mail)
(315)-341-3577 (FAX)


On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, Stephen Homick wrote:

> In the interest of brevity, I'll give a sole yet significant example of the
> difference. In His Catholic Majesty's Western Indies, slave marriages were
> legally recognized, whereas they weren't in His Britannic Majesty's North
> American Plantations and under the slave regime of the United States that
> succeeded them.  Needless to say, that recognition accorded slaves in
> Spanish America a legitimate civil identity that their coevals in British
> America were denied. Put another way, property rights seem to have ceded
> pride of place to family values in the Hispanic world.
>
> These laws developed from local custom and usage, and were first codified
> in 1768, then subsequently in 1769, 1784 and 1789. The Puerto Rican slave
> code of 1826 represents the culmination of this process.  Even a
> superficial scan of it will suffice to reveal some of the more palpable
> differences between the Iberian and Anglo-Saxon variants of slavery,
> American style.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:26:04 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: Slavery under the Spanish and portuguese
Comments: To: "J. Douglas Deal" 
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        Slaveowners throughout the Americas both violated and fostered what we
        might call "family values" in their own "peculiar" ways.

i am perturbed by the notion that *we* seem to have a need to demonstrate
that one form of slavery was better than another.  we seem to be caught up
in the notion that we must defend ourselves (that is, defend our
collective past history of slaveownership) by noting that one group of
slaveowners  *permitted marriage* while another group - more bloodthirsty,
i imagine we are to suppose them as being - did not.  let me suggest that
slavery was an immoral act.  let me suggest further that those who held
africans against their will participated in an immoral act to no benefit
of the enslaved (captive) africans.

i agree with deal's assessment (above) that the americas *violated* and
*fostered* values in their own peculiar ways.  and i am thankful for those
of *us* who understand and communicate that there can be no middle ground
on the issue.  slavery was bad.

and i am curious why we have to keep taking these measurements:  good
slaveowner; bad slaveowner. what / who are we trying to salvage in these
type assessments?   can we not agree that slavery - in its
entirety - was immoral; slavery, in its entirety, was not benign; slavery,
in its entirety, was a particularly horrific act for which there was and
is no moral excuse.

i want to suggest that those of *us* who want to view slavery as
delineated along the lines of good slaveowner, bad slaveowner, put
yourself in the shoes of one of my ancestors.  would being *permitted* to
marry have made you feel better about having been kidnapped from your
homeland?  suppose you were *permitted* to learn to read as recompense for
being so kidnapped?  would you feel better? maybe only one of your three
daughters would be sold and you got to see the other two grow up as slaves
with you.  feel  better?  maybe your grandfather, or your father, or an
uncle was only mutilated and not killed when they tried to escape.  does
that do it for you?   what exactly
would it take for you to consider yourself *lucky* to be a slave?

i grow weary of these types of arguments.  come now, let's say it all
together:  slavery was an immoral act for which there was / is no
justification.  period.

now, can we move on to the new landscape where we examine slavery from the
perspective of the captive rather than from the perspective of the captor?


Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
A Poetics of Black Women's              that we be seen as whole people
 Literature, 1773-Present               in our actual complexities - as
The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:17:07 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Randee Goodstadt 
Subject:      Re: Slavery under the Spanish and portuguese
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I appreciated Mary Blanchard Loving's heartfelt comments about the =
specific miseries of enslavement.  However, it has been my very strong =
impression that no one participating in this whole discussion thinks that =
slavery was anything but immoral. =20

Are you suggesting that we would be better off to simply teach our =
students that slavery is immoral and say nothing more about it?  Don't we =
have a right and a need to know the specifics?  I for one am curious about =
how slavery actually operated, just as I am curious about how Nazi =
genocide operated as well.  Which is, I wish I didn't feel compelled to =
say, not to say that I find either morally acceptable. =20

I am personally uncomfortable with attempts to prevent discussion of =
certain aspects of history.  My students want to know about such issues, =
and I want to be reasonably informed in order to give them solid answers.  =
I resent attempts at thought control and don't practice it in my classroom.=
 =20

And I deeply resent and reject attempts to paint anyone who disagrees with =
a person of color as a racist.  My personal credentials are pretty solid, =
let's not even go there. =20



Regards,
Randee

Randee Brenner Goodstadt
Asheville-Buncombe Technical Community College
Asheville, NC
828-254-1921 ex. 296
rgoodstadt@asheville.cc.ns.us

>>> c  10/20/99 11:26PM >>>
        Slaveowners throughout the Americas both violated and fostered =
what we
        might call "family values" in their own "peculiar" ways.

i am perturbed by the notion that *we* seem to have a need to demonstrate
that one form of slavery was better than another.  we seem to be caught up
in the notion that we must defend ourselves (that is, defend our
collective past history of slaveownership) by noting that one group of
slaveowners  *permitted marriage* while another group - more bloodthirsty,
i imagine we are to suppose them as being - did not.  let me suggest that
slavery was an immoral act.  let me suggest further that those who held
africans against their will participated in an immoral act to no benefit
of the enslaved (captive) africans.

i agree with deal's assessment (above) that the americas *violated* and
*fostered* values in their own peculiar ways.  and i am thankful for those
of *us* who understand and communicate that there can be no middle ground
on the issue.  slavery was bad.

and i am curious why we have to keep taking these measurements:  good
slaveowner; bad slaveowner. what / who are we trying to salvage in these
type assessments?   can we not agree that slavery - in its
entirety - was immoral; slavery, in its entirety, was not benign; slavery,
in its entirety, was a particularly horrific act for which there was and
is no moral excuse.

i want to suggest that those of *us* who want to view slavery as
delineated along the lines of good slaveowner, bad slaveowner, put
yourself in the shoes of one of my ancestors.  would being *permitted* to
marry have made you feel better about having been kidnapped from your
homeland?  suppose you were *permitted* to learn to read as recompense for
being so kidnapped?  would you feel better? maybe only one of your three
daughters would be sold and you got to see the other two grow up as slaves
with you.  feel  better?  maybe your grandfather, or your father, or an
uncle was only mutilated and not killed when they tried to escape.  does
that do it for you?   what exactly
would it take for you to consider yourself *lucky* to be a slave?

i grow weary of these types of arguments.  come now, let's say it all
together:  slavery was an immoral act for which there was / is no
justification.  period.

now, can we move on to the new landscape where we examine slavery from the
perspective of the captive rather than from the perspective of the captor?


Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
A Poetics of Black Women's              that we be seen as whole people
 Literature, 1773-Present               in our actual complexities - as
The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:14:26 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Stephen Whitman 
Subject:      Re: Slave vs. Slaveowner Perspective on Slavery
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        Let me begin by applauding Ms. Blanchard's call for studying
slavery from the perspective of those enslaved.  That having been said,
one of the most prominent objects on the slave's "landscape" was
certainly the master, and slaves found it well worth their while to make
judgments about masters' propensity to violence, tolerance for slave
marriages, and so on.  Slave narratives, for example, show that African
Americans paid close attention to slaveholders' financial wellbeing: a
master whose fortunes were declining might be a master who was about to
sell a slave.

        In some societies, slaves could hope to wring from masters the
concession of being allowed to choose another master, as an alternative to
sale by auction.  What this could mean in practice was receiving a pass
from a master to go to say, Baltimore or Richmond, to find someone willing
to buy or hire you out.  Like most of the concessions from masters to
slaves, this one more or less compelled the slave to acknowledge outwardly
the legitimacy of slavery (by participating in bringing about his or her
sale).  Likewise, this concession was advantageous to the master, by
reducing the transaction costs of finding a buyer (time, advertising,
auctioneer's fees) and shifting the burden to the slave.

        Notwithstanding all this, many African Americans preferred
"choosing" a new master to being sold at auction, because it allowed them
to make small distinctions, to seek or consolidate small gains in
personal autonomy, family unity, or safety from violence.  None of this
means that enslaved people inwardly accepted slavery as legitimate, or
moral.  But it still mattered to them to make choices within a hideous and
immoral system.

        Finally, to return to the original comparative question about
Spanish/Portuguese slavery vs. N. American slavery, perhaps we should be
asking whether slaves ever thought or acted in terms of moving/fleeing
from one slave society to another, knowing that they might remain in
slavery in their new location, as distinct from fleeing from slavery
to freedom.

        Can anyone on this list think of instances of such actions?


        Steve Whitman, Mt. St. Mary's College
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:19:47 EDT
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         "Angela Y. Walton-Raji" 
Subject:      Re: Slave vs. Slaveowner Perspective on Slavery
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

It is often assumed that black chattel slavery practiced by Native Americans
was somehow a kinder gentler form of slavery. However, the actions of the
Cherokee slaves in 1842, prove that such was not the case. In that year, the
slaves of Cherokee Joseph "Rich Joe" Vann attempted a slave rebellion.
Several hundred slaves seized horses, and weapons in an effort to attempt to
flee to freedom. For several days they had some lead time, but after
replacement horses and arms were delivered to the Vanns from Ft. Smith who
went in hot pursuit.  The slaves were eventually apprehended after several
days, having engaged in a battle for several days. When ammunition ran out as
well as provisions they were returned to enslavement. The leaders were
executed and their bodies displayed to further remind the remaining slaves
the results of fleeing from bondage.
   Constitutionally, more rigid slave codes were passed, restricting the
movements of slaves betweeen plantations.  On the other hand by the time of
the late 1850's in the Creek Nation, there were still evidences of relaxed
standards among the slave owners there, where slaves had small amounts of
personal property and former slaves were able to make claims after the War
for property lost during the rebellion.

-Angela Y. Walton-Raji-

In a message dated 10/21/99 6:13:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
whitman@MSMARY.EDU writes:

<< Finally, to return to the original comparative question about
 Spanish/Portuguese slavery vs. N. American slavery, perhaps we should be
 asking whether slaves ever thought or acted in terms of moving/fleeing
 from one slave society to another, knowing that they might remain in
 slavery in their new location, as distinct from fleeing from slavery
 to freedom. >>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:05:48 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Ellen Noonan 
Subject:      online teaching resources
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

I'm a graduate student in U.S. history and I haven't had the chance to do
much teaching yet.
I'd like to ask folks on the list if they have been able to use the
"Africans in America" documentary from PBS and the companion website
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/) with students.  I have mixed feelings about
the documentary but I love the website and the primary documents it makes
available.  Has anyone used the video or the website, or even both together?
 How do students handle the primary documents?

Ellen Noonan
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:03:21 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Lawrence Hartzell 
Subject:      Re: online teaching resources
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ellen--

I use the part of the first episode about Anthony Johnson's experiences in
17th-century Virginia to great effect.  Students love it--it doesn't fit in
at all with their image of that period of colonial Virginia history.

Larry Hartzell
Dept. of History
Brookdale Comm. Coll.
Lincroft, NJ
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:59:19 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Nemata Blyden 
Organization: University of Texas at Dallas
Subject:      Re: online teaching resources
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------57B468617139A22E17EBB273"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------57B468617139A22E17EBB273
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I showed episodes 3 & 4 for the first time in my class this semester. The
students loved it.  Even though there are parts of it that I am not crazy
about, I have found that the students like the visual aspect of films such as
these.  When the series was first shown on PBS, I was teaching a class on Early
African American history, and I offered bonus points to students who watched
the series and did a write up.  Those who did expressed the view that it helped
them understand the course and the readings we had done much better.


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org:            University of Texas - Dallas
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email;internet: nblyden@utdallas.edu
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--------------57B468617139A22E17EBB273--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:28:59 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: Slavery under the Spanish and portuguese
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        it was not my intent either to suggest thought control or to
suggest that anyone to whom i posted my response was racist.  i ask that
you reread my post and remove your emotions from that reading.


Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
A Poetics of the Black American         that we be seen as whole people
 Woman's Literature, 1773-Present       in our actual complexities- as
The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"

On Thu, 21 Oct 1999, Randee Goodstadt wrote:

> I appreciated Mary Blanchard Loving's heartfelt comments about the specific miseries of enslavement.  However, it has been my very strong impression that no one participating in this whole discussion thinks that slavery was anything but immoral.
>
> Are you suggesting that we would be better off to simply teach our students that slavery is immoral and say nothing more about it?  Don't we have a right and a need to know the specifics?  I for one am curious about how slavery actually operated, just as I am curious about how Nazi genocide operated as well.  Which is, I wish I didn't feel compelled to say, not to say that I find either morally acceptable.
>
> I am personally uncomfortable with attempts to prevent discussion of certain aspects of history.  My students want to know about such issues, and I want to be reasonably informed in order to give them solid answers.  I resent attempts at thought control and don't practice it in my classroom.
>
> And I deeply resent and reject attempts to paint anyone who disagrees with a person of color as a racist.  My personal credentials are pretty solid, let's not even go there.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Randee
>
> Randee Brenner Goodstadt
> Asheville-Buncombe Technical Community College
> Asheville, NC
> 828-254-1921 ex. 296
> rgoodstadt@asheville.cc.ns.us
>
> >>> c  10/20/99 11:26PM >>>
>         Slaveowners throughout the Americas both violated and fostered what we
>         might call "family values" in their own "peculiar" ways.
>
> i am perturbed by the notion that *we* seem to have a need to demonstrate
> that one form of slavery was better than another.  we seem to be caught up
> in the notion that we must defend ourselves (that is, defend our
> collective past history of slaveownership) by noting that one group of
> slaveowners  *permitted marriage* while another group - more bloodthirsty,
> i imagine we are to suppose them as being - did not.  let me suggest that
> slavery was an immoral act.  let me suggest further that those who held
> africans against their will participated in an immoral act to no benefit
> of the enslaved (captive) africans.
>
> i agree with deal's assessment (above) that the americas *violated* and
> *fostered* values in their own peculiar ways.  and i am thankful for those
> of *us* who understand and communicate that there can be no middle ground
> on the issue.  slavery was bad.
>
> and i am curious why we have to keep taking these measurements:  good
> slaveowner; bad slaveowner. what / who are we trying to salvage in these
> type assessments?   can we not agree that slavery - in its
> entirety - was immoral; slavery, in its entirety, was not benign; slavery,
> in its entirety, was a particularly horrific act for which there was and
> is no moral excuse.
>
> i want to suggest that those of *us* who want to view slavery as
> delineated along the lines of good slaveowner, bad slaveowner, put
> yourself in the shoes of one of my ancestors.  would being *permitted* to
> marry have made you feel better about having been kidnapped from your
> homeland?  suppose you were *permitted* to learn to read as recompense for
> being so kidnapped?  would you feel better? maybe only one of your three
> daughters would be sold and you got to see the other two grow up as slaves
> with you.  feel  better?  maybe your grandfather, or your father, or an
> uncle was only mutilated and not killed when they tried to escape.  does
> that do it for you?   what exactly
> would it take for you to consider yourself *lucky* to be a slave?
>
> i grow weary of these types of arguments.  come now, let's say it all
> together:  slavery was an immoral act for which there was / is no
> justification.  period.
>
> now, can we move on to the new landscape where we examine slavery from the
> perspective of the captive rather than from the perspective of the captor?
>
>
> Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
> Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
> A Poetics of Black Women's              that we be seen as whole people
>  Literature, 1773-Present               in our actual complexities - as
> The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
> School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
> 972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
> nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
>                                         society in place of genuine images
>                                         of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
>                                         "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:50:34 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: Slavery under the Spanish and portuguese
In-Reply-To:  
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        i have responded to the message that follows below in a personal
post; however, i realize that to respond at that level may be construed as
coming out of my need to *keep secret* my own thinking.  i don't want to
be so construed, therefore, i am posting my response here so that the list
might review it.  i have no objection to be *criticized* or *corrected*
but i must say i will defend my right to speak from the perspective i own.
i can speak from no other.

        the post of which i spoke follows:

i would like to respond personally to your post and will do so.  it
concerns me that you see my attempt to *defend* the position i hold as
paramount to calling you a racist.  where is that coming from?  in
suggesting that my defense of my position is an attack on you are you
doing anything less than that of which you accuse me?  put another way:
why is it *okay* for you to go there and not okay for me to go there?

i do not *think* that anyone willing to discuss the issue of slavery
without namecalling is racist.  when name calling happens - or the
accusation of name calling as in this instance, i become suspect.  what is
vested in me not being able to speak my perspective  - that is, what is
vested in me not being able to speak of my experience as the descendent of
slaves?  why is the information being touted as *valuable* only that
information that the *master* would approve.  i think this is more along
the lines of thought control and i, sir, vehemently resent it.



Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
A Poetics of the Black American         that we be seen as whole people
 Woman's Literature, 1773-Present       in our actual complexities- as
The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"

On Thu, 21 Oct 1999, Randee Goodstadt wrote:

> I appreciated Mary Blanchard Loving's heartfelt comments about the specific miseries of enslavement.  However, it has been my very strong impression that no one participating in this whole discussion thinks that slavery was anything but immoral.
>
> Are you suggesting that we would be better off to simply teach our students that slavery is immoral and say nothing more about it?  Don't we have a right and a need to know the specifics?  I for one am curious about how slavery actually operated, just as I am curious about how Nazi genocide operated as well.  Which is, I wish I didn't feel compelled to say, not to say that I find either morally acceptable.
>
> I am personally uncomfortable with attempts to prevent discussion of certain aspects of history.  My students want to know about such issues, and I want to be reasonably informed in order to give them solid answers.  I resent attempts at thought control and don't practice it in my classroom.
>
> And I deeply resent and reject attempts to paint anyone who disagrees with a person of color as a racist.  My personal credentials are pretty solid, let's not even go there.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Randee
>
> Randee Brenner Goodstadt
> Asheville-Buncombe Technical Community College
> Asheville, NC
> 828-254-1921 ex. 296
> rgoodstadt@asheville.cc.ns.us
>
> >>> c  10/20/99 11:26PM >>>
>         Slaveowners throughout the Americas both violated and fostered what we
>         might call "family values" in their own "peculiar" ways.
>
> i am perturbed by the notion that *we* seem to have a need to demonstrate
> that one form of slavery was better than another.  we seem to be caught up
> in the notion that we must defend ourselves (that is, defend our
> collective past history of slaveownership) by noting that one group of
> slaveowners  *permitted marriage* while another group - more bloodthirsty,
> i imagine we are to suppose them as being - did not.  let me suggest that
> slavery was an immoral act.  let me suggest further that those who held
> africans against their will participated in an immoral act to no benefit
> of the enslaved (captive) africans.
>
> i agree with deal's assessment (above) that the americas *violated* and
> *fostered* values in their own peculiar ways.  and i am thankful for those
> of *us* who understand and communicate that there can be no middle ground
> on the issue.  slavery was bad.
>
> and i am curious why we have to keep taking these measurements:  good
> slaveowner; bad slaveowner. what / who are we trying to salvage in these
> type assessments?   can we not agree that slavery - in its
> entirety - was immoral; slavery, in its entirety, was not benign; slavery,
> in its entirety, was a particularly horrific act for which there was and
> is no moral excuse.
>
> i want to suggest that those of *us* who want to view slavery as
> delineated along the lines of good slaveowner, bad slaveowner, put
> yourself in the shoes of one of my ancestors.  would being *permitted* to
> marry have made you feel better about having been kidnapped from your
> homeland?  suppose you were *permitted* to learn to read as recompense for
> being so kidnapped?  would you feel better? maybe only one of your three
> daughters would be sold and you got to see the other two grow up as slaves
> with you.  feel  better?  maybe your grandfather, or your father, or an
> uncle was only mutilated and not killed when they tried to escape.  does
> that do it for you?   what exactly
> would it take for you to consider yourself *lucky* to be a slave?
>
> i grow weary of these types of arguments.  come now, let's say it all
> together:  slavery was an immoral act for which there was / is no
> justification.  period.
>
> now, can we move on to the new landscape where we examine slavery from the
> perspective of the captive rather than from the perspective of the captor?
>
>
> Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
> Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
> A Poetics of Black Women's              that we be seen as whole people
>  Literature, 1773-Present               in our actual complexities - as
> The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
> School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
> 972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
> nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
>                                         society in place of genuine images
>                                         of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
>                                         "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:19:51 EDT
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         Roberta Koza 
Subject:      Re: online teaching resources
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Ellen-
One of my teachers was doing a lesson on Bacon's rebellion and the beginning
of institutionalized racism.  We went to that site for slave code documents.
It took some doing, but students were able to work it out.  The NARA document
analysis sheet  proved too wordy. We simplified it.  It is a great site!
Roberta
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:02:21 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         farran 
Subject:      Re: online teaching resources
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Roberta - Saw your posting. What's the great site?
Elaine

Roberta Koza wrote:

> Hi Ellen-
> One of my teachers was doing a lesson on Bacon's rebellion and the beginning
> of institutionalized racism.  We went to that site for slave code documents.
> It took some doing, but students were able to work it out.  The NARA document
> analysis sheet  proved too wordy. We simplified it.  It is a great site!
> Roberta
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Oct 1999 05:49:37 GMT
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         bakari stamps 
Subject:      Re: Slavery under the Spanish and portuguese
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

man, i'm only a baby in the whole scheme of life and african-american
history.  being a young black male snatched up from the projects and sent to
private school to listen to similar arguements of which is the worse or
better of two evils 'good slaveowners' vs. 'bad slaveowners',etc.  i'm glad
i'm not the only one bothered by this trivial stance.  i am not interested
in whether one oppressor was nicer than the other.  the bottom line is that
my ancestors were oppressed as were millions of other peoples.  this is
common knowledge.  i think ms. blanchard is right, can we get on to
examining the issue from the other side of the coin? i think it would make
for a better understanding of what was the real deal concerning relations of
slaveowner vs. slave, and slavery in general.  you know, we might even help
the youth coming up after me to understand and realize that just being angry
about the past will not change the future american state. we need to know
where to direct our energies.  thank God for Hip-Hop music!  you can't keep
shut what was meant to be open, truth and reality.

the knowledge and 'whole truth' of america's past is what i think will help
make life truly better for us, all of us. think about it, when the truth
smacks you in the face, you can't do anything but say, "ouch!" and learn to
deal with it. meaning don't make the same mistake/bad decision twice.  this
is what we the youth of america need to learn from the past.  as of yet it
hasn't sunk into all the minds of america.  also, getting to the point w/out
all the flowery speech makes for more interesting reading.

our world is moving at such a fast pace that while we deliberate on trivial
matters, bigger issues are creeping up on us, like life and longevity.  i
don't mean to ramble but i've waited for years to learn the truth about my,
our past, i don't want to wait any longer. can we get down with the real?

>From: c 
>Reply-To: FORUM ON SLAVERY 
>To: SLAVERYFORUM@ASHP.LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: Re: Slavery under the Spanish and portuguese
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:26:04 -0500
>
>         Slaveowners throughout the Americas both violated and fostered
>what we
>         might call "family values" in their own "peculiar" ways.
>
>i am perturbed by the notion that *we* seem to have a need to demonstrate
>that one form of slavery was better than another.  we seem to be caught up
>in the notion that we must defend ourselves (that is, defend our
>collective past history of slaveownership) by noting that one group of
>slaveowners  *permitted marriage* while another group - more bloodthirsty,
>i imagine we are to suppose them as being - did not.  let me suggest that
>slavery was an immoral act.  let me suggest further that those who held
>africans against their will participated in an immoral act to no benefit
>of the enslaved (captive) africans.
>
>i agree with deal's assessment (above) that the americas *violated* and
>*fostered* values in their own peculiar ways.  and i am thankful for those
>of *us* who understand and communicate that there can be no middle ground
>on the issue.  slavery was bad.
>
>and i am curious why we have to keep taking these measurements:  good
>slaveowner; bad slaveowner. what / who are we trying to salvage in these
>type assessments?   can we not agree that slavery - in its
>entirety - was immoral; slavery, in its entirety, was not benign; slavery,
>in its entirety, was a particularly horrific act for which there was and
>is no moral excuse.
>
>i want to suggest that those of *us* who want to view slavery as
>delineated along the lines of good slaveowner, bad slaveowner, put
>yourself in the shoes of one of my ancestors.  would being *permitted* to
>marry have made you feel better about having been kidnapped from your
>homeland?  suppose you were *permitted* to learn to read as recompense for
>being so kidnapped?  would you feel better? maybe only one of your three
>daughters would be sold and you got to see the other two grow up as slaves
>with you.  feel  better?  maybe your grandfather, or your father, or an
>uncle was only mutilated and not killed when they tried to escape.  does
>that do it for you?   what exactly
>would it take for you to consider yourself *lucky* to be a slave?
>
>i grow weary of these types of arguments.  come now, let's say it all
>together:  slavery was an immoral act for which there was / is no
>justification.  period.
>
>now, can we move on to the new landscape where we examine slavery from the
>perspective of the captive rather than from the perspective of the captor?
>
>
>Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
>Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
>A Poetics of Black Women's              that we be seen as whole people
>  Literature, 1773-Present               in our actual complexities - as
>The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
>School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
>972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
>nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
>                                         society in place of genuine images
>                                         of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
>                                         "Age, Race, Class and Sex"

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:00:49 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: Slavery under the Spanish and portuguese
In-Reply-To:  <19991022054938.47814.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        man, i'm only a baby in the whole scheme of life and african-american
        history.

the future belongs to you, little brother.  take it.  teach the rest of us
what it means to strive for the real.  we may finally be ready to hear
you.


Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
A Poetics of the Black American         that we be seen as whole people
 Woman's Literature, 1773-Present       in our actual complexities- as
The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:06:29 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: online teaching resources
In-Reply-To:  <380FD3BD.5520D415@optonline.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

One of my teachers was doing a lesson on Bacon's rebellion and the
beginning
> of institutionalized racism.  We went to that site for slave code
documents.
> It took some doing, but students were able to work it out.  The NARA
document
> analysis sheet  proved too wordy. We simplified it.  It is a great site!
> Roberta


        hi, roberta.  very interested in this site.  please post your
response to the list.  thanks.


Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
A Poetics of the Black American         that we be seen as whole people
 Woman's Literature, 1773-Present       in our actual complexities- as
The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:12:07 -0500
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         c 
Subject:      Re: online teaching resources
In-Reply-To:  <9337f898.254123c7@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        sorry, i can not be of much help in providing on-line or video
resources for use in teaching.  as a rule, i don't use them in my classes.
my kids call me a *dinosaur* and i confess to being pretty close to that
description.  don't get me wrong, i may suggest other sources for my
students that they review at their leisure but i tend to be very
traditional in my teaching pedagogy - yeah, it's the textbook for me.
before someone thinks i am making a value judgement about the use of
online / video teaching resources, please know i am not.  right now, i
only teach composition courses.  i do not yet teach in my other area of
speciality - african american women's lit .  and yes, i  would be interested
in learning of online resources / video resources / the like. perhaps too
we can share information on some of the text that i have come across in my
research.

        peace.



Mary Loving Blanchard                   "To examine Black women's
Doctoral Candidate                      literature effectively requires
A Poetics of the Black American         that we be seen as whole people
 Woman's Literature, 1773-Present       in our actual complexities- as
The University of Texas at Dallas       individuals, as women, as human -
School of Arts and Humanities           rather than as one of those
972 883 2019     Jo 4.118               problematic but familiar
nia@utdallas.edu                        stereotypes provided in this
                                        society in place of genuine images
                                        of Black women." - Audre Lorde,
                                        "Age, Race, Class and Sex"
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:15:42 -0400
Reply-To:     FORUM ON SLAVERY 
Sender:       FORUM ON SLAVERY 
From:         anne yentsch 
Subject:      Re: Slavery under the Spanish and portuguese
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F3_01BF1C87.2961C820"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00F3_01BF1C87.2961C820
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

While there was a fairly large scale slave trade in Indian captives in =
South Carolina, by and large this aspect of the slave trade was minimal =
in the British colonies compared with that which existed in the early =
Spanish colonies. =20

I find it informative to discuss this students because many believe that =
only Africans were enslaved.  It also opens up a forum to discuss Indian =
and African interaction as well as "escaping" from slavery.  Both the =
British and the Spanish used strategies (they may have differed) to keep =
Indians from aiding escaping slaves. =20

Florida, however, was a safe haven for African slaves who escaped from =
British Colonies from c. 1696 onward. The slaves could claim they were =
seeking religious asylum.  There is a video and a neat little book on =
Fort Mose, a free black settlement outside St. Augustine in the 1730s, =
that students enjoy.  Its published by the Univ. of Florida Press.=20

Three of the major destinations for the Underground Railroad were in =
Florida; the ways in which Africans and, later, African Americans =
arrived in the Florida interior and were incorporated into the Native =
American communities had consequences (i.e., The Seminole Wars of the =
19th century). The Spanish helped pave the way for this.

There is an excellent book by a well known Brazilian author that =
discusses at some length the relationship between the slave and free =
population in the 19th century.  His name escapes me for the moment, but =
he was trained in anthropology by Kroeber and later in historical =
methods before he returned to his native country.  I think it was =
Gilberto Freyre and that the book was Order and Progress: Brazil from =
Monarchy to Republic by Gilberto Freyre  Rod W. Horton (Translator), but =
he also wrote a later text entitled "Masters
 and Slaves."

The different ways that various cultures treated slaves and how =
individuals of African
descent were assimilated is a fascinating topic.  You might also want to =
look
at some books on slavery in the Caribbean.

Anne Yentsch
Armstrong Atlantic State University

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: EUGENE BENNETT=20
  To: SLAVERYFORUM@ASHP.LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU=20
  Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 11:29 PM
  Subject: Slavery under the Spanish and portuguese


  I woullde like your opinion of how the slavery under the Spanish and =
Portuguese in the Americas was different from the British .  This topic =
is rarely covered when there is a discussion of this "peculiar" =
institution.
  =20

  Catherine Scott
  Spanish Teacher
  New York City =20

------=_NextPart_000_00F3_01BF1C87.2961C820
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable








While there was a fairly large scale =
slave trade in=20
Indian captives in South Carolina, by and large this aspect of the slave =
trade=20
was minimal in the British colonies compared with that which existed in =
the=20
early Spanish colonies.  
 
I find it informative to discuss this =
students=20
because many believe that only Africans were enslaved.  It also =
opens up a=20
forum to discuss Indian and African interaction as well as "escaping" =
from=20
slavery.  Both the British and the Spanish used strategies (they =
may have=20
differed) to keep Indians from aiding escaping slaves.  =

 
Florida, however, was a safe haven for =
African=20
slaves who escaped from British Colonies from c. 1696 onward. The slaves =
could=20
claim they were seeking religious asylum.  There is a video and a =
neat=20
little book on Fort Mose, a free black settlement outside St. Augustine =
in the=20
1730s, that students enjoy.  Its published by the Univ. of Florida =
Press.=20

 
Three of the major destinations for the =
Underground=20
Railroad were in Florida; the ways in which Africans and, later, African =

Americans arrived in the Florida interior and were incorporated into the =
Native=20
American communities had consequences (i.e., The Seminole Wars of the =
19th=20
century). The Spanish helped pave the way for this.
 
There is an excellent book by a well =
known=20
Brazilian author that discusses at some length the relationship between =
the=20
slave and free population in the 19th century.  His name escapes me =
for the=20
moment, but he was trained in anthropology by Kroeber and later in =
historical=20
methods before he returned to his native country.  I think it was =
Gilberto=20
Freyre and that the book was Order=20
and Progress: Brazil from Monarchy to Republic by Gilberto=20
Freyre  Rod=20
W. Horton (Translator), but he also wrote a later text entitled=20
"Masters
 and=20
Slaves."
 
The different=20
ways that various cultures treated slaves and how individuals of=20
African
descent were=20
assimilated is a fascinating topic.  You might also want to=20
look
at =
some books on=20
slavery in the Caribbean.
 
Anne=20
Yentsch
Armstrong=20
Atlantic State University


  
----- Original Message ----- 
  From:=20
  EUGENE =
BENNETT=20